Traditional Scottish Clothing

[Celt_Ginger]

You see! It took the Irish to sort out Scotland . the Scotti were an Irish tribe from the North of Ireland. Scott is still a common family name and the "Dalriada" area and connection are very much in evidence around North Antrim. Happy st Patricks day to you all by the way.

Well, the whole "sky-clad into battle" thing is quite a bit earlier, and based on some possibly unreliable sources... But it apparently scared the bejesus out of the Romans.

Of course, whenever wondering about "traditional" Scottish anything, the first problem is "What exactly do you mean by Scotland or Scottish?" Scotland didn't exist in any form really until the unification of Pictland and Dalriada in the 8th Century, and even then there were very extensive areas of what we now call Scotland which were separate polities until much later - Sutherland was more Viking, and the Lowlands were largely Anlgo-Saxon (at least they were after the collapse of the Goddodin and the expansion of Bernica - with the exception of Strathclyde, which was a different beast again).

As ever, the best answer is "I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that..."

 

[Graham_S]

I'm sure I read/heard somewhere that the latest thinking is that the tribes moved to Ireland from Scotland, then back again.
I expect Toddy'll be along in a minute to correct me though

 

[Toddy]

Toddy,

Mmmm just been told by my wife that a drindle is a skirt, so rather less interested in a pattern for that one

Graham

It's also the name given to the patten style of shirt/ blouse that develops into the Swanndri
Basically it's a tabard with side panels, sleeves and an underarm gusset added.

cheers,
Toddy


Celt Ginger .....Happy St.Patrick's day..........you know he's supposed to be a Scotsman from Galloway ?
I think the Scotti were the people of the sea coasts and adjacent hinterlands either side of that top bit of the Irish Sea and N. Atlantic. We can see you and you can see us.To a seagoing folks that distance is just visiting family. Graham_S's on the nail with his comment, according to the archaeology.

 

[gregorach]

You see! It took the Irish to sort out Scotland . the Scotti were an Irish tribe from the North of Ireland. Scott is still a common family name and the "Dalriada" area and connection are very much in evidence around North Antrim. Happy st Patricks day to you all by the way.

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that...

As far as my understanding goes, I believe that to ask whether the Scotti and / or the Gaels of Dalriada were "Scots" or "Irish" is a misleading question. They were a coastal people based around the northern end of the Irish Sea - the strait was the centre of their domain, the thing that brought them together, not a boundary as we see it today. The Plain of Manannan was more bountiful and easier to traverse than the land was, so that's what their community was based around.

EDIT: I see both Graham_S and Toddy beat me to it...

 

[myotis]

It's also the name given to the patten style of shirt/ blouse that develops into the Swanndri
Basically it's a tabard with side panels, sleeves and an underarm gusset added.

Ahh, that sounds good as well then

Graham

 

[Sisyphus]

I'm pretty sure a tartan bonnet with a fake ginger wig sown into the back of it was traditional hiking gear back then...

I was always under the impression that a lot of what is considered "traditional" scottish dress today is all from the last 300 years or so and bears no relation to what the average scot would have worn. A match coat definately sounds much more like it.

I'm scottish but I wouldn't be seen dead in a kilt.

 

[forestwalker]

Well, you could do worse than looking like an extra from Robin Hood/Viking film !!

I have gone full circle with my clothing. From natural (cos that is pretty well all there was when I was a lad) to high-tech super lightweight and back to natural materials.

I was also thinking of making some clothes but was going to investigate Scottish/N.European designs for inspiration, hence my interest in this question here, except I am interested in almost any period.

A bunch of years ago the Swedish Survial Guild held one of its "adventure" courses. Ten days, no kit except some clothes, quite a bit of walking, northern Swedish summer. One lad -- me -- wore a viking style set of clothes: Thorsbjerg style trousers, linnen tunic, and a vadmal outer tunic. A hood inspired by the Orkney hood. I was out of actual viking ag shoes so I wore moccasins with pieces of wool fabric wrapped around the feet (ex. Swedish army issue "fotlappar").

It was bloody marvelous. I could ignore stuff that bothered others (mosquitos at night, rain making all your clothes wet, wellies as wet on the inside as outside, etc). I can't really think of a set of clothes that would be better for that kind of conditions, not really.

 

[myotis]

A bunch of years ago the Swedish Survial Guild held one of its "adventure" courses. Ten days, no kit except some clothes, quite a bit of walking, northern Swedish summer. One lad -- me -- wore a viking style set of clothes: Thorsbjerg style trousers, linnen tunic, and a vadmal outer tunic. A hood inspired by the Orkney hood. I was out of actual viking ag shoes so I wore moccasins with pieces of wool fabric wrapped around the feet (ex. Swedish army issue "fotlappar").

It was bloody marvelous. I could ignore stuff that bothered others (mosquitos at night, rain making all your clothes wet, wellies as wet on the inside as outside, etc). I can't really think of a set of clothes that would be better for that kind of conditions, not really.

Interesting, I had never heard of some the tings you mention, but googling sorted it out. Given the 1000 year question and the close links with Vikings in Scotland I suspect some people in Scotland were probably wearing something similar.

What were the trousers made of?

Graham

 

[sandbender]

It was bloody marvelous. I could ignore stuff that bothered others (mosquitos at night, rain making all your clothes wet, wellies as wet on the inside as outside, etc). I can't really think of a set of clothes that would be better for that kind of conditions, not really.

The highland 'garb' was thought to be essential for life in the highlands, these comments were written in defense of the 'great kilt' at the time when the 'Disarming Act' was under consideration by parliament...

"The garb is certainly very loose, and fits men inured to it to go through great fatigues, to make very quick marches, to bear out against the inclemency of the weather, to wade through rivers, and shelter in huts, woods, and rocks upon occasion; which men dressed in the low country garb could not possibly endure."

"at least it seems to me to be, an utter impossibility, without the advantage of this dress, for the inhabitants to tend their cattle, and to go through the other parts of their business, without
which they could not subsist"

Others thought that highland 'garb' should be banned for the same reasons...

"... the Highland dress distinguished the Highlanders from the rest of British subjects and bound them together in a narrow introverted community: that the plaid, in particular, encouraged their idle way of life, “lying about upon the heath in the daytime instead of following some lawful employment”; that, being “composed of such colours as altogether in the mass so nearly resemble the heath on which they lie, that it is hardly to be distinguished from it until one is so near them as to be within their power”, it facilitated their robberies and depredations; that it made them, “as they carry continually their tents about them”, ready to join a rebellion at a moment's notice."

 

[myotis]

I'm pretty sure a tartan bonnet with a fake ginger wig sown into the back of it was traditional hiking gear back then...

I was always under the impression that a lot of what is considered "traditional" scottish dress today is all from the last 300 years or so and bears no relation to what the average scot would have worn. A match coat definately sounds much more like it.

I'm scottish but I wouldn't be seen dead in a kilt.

I think, the kilt only became the scottish "national" dress in Victorian times. Before that it was only worn in the highlands and thus by a tiny number of people living in Scotland. In fact didn't the Victorians pretty well invent the modern image of Scotland.

But I wait to be corrected on this.

As a Fifer, my Dad had no rghts to wear the kilt, but that was his "best" clothes and he always wore the kilt to weddings and other formal occasions.

Graham

 

[Toddy]

Close but Sir Walter Scott had a lot to do with it too
Nowadays for daily wear or for sports events and concerts or ceilidhs most menfolks are going back to more suitable clothing with the kilt.
The ghillie shirt or sark, kilt, either as a belted plaid or the stitched one, and comfortable boots and socks. The highly tailored jackets are falling by the wayside except for really dressed up and waistcoats with shoulder guards are more commonly worn.
I also see a lot of better quality sgian dubhs instead of the glass jewel encrusted ones and proper leather sporrans; indeed there have been patterns already posted for these on the forum

Just make sure your sark covers you decently and everything's fine

My Dad and my brothers wore their kilts for 'best' too.

Cheers,
Toddy........who wears her arisaid and really likes a man in a kilt

 

[myotis]

Close but Sir Walter Scott had a lot to do with it too
Nowadays for daily wear or for sports events and concerts or ceilidhs most menfolks are going back to more suitable clothing with the kilt.
The ghillie shirt or sark, kilt, either as a belted plaid or the stitched one, and comfortable boots and socks. The highly tailored jackets are falling by the wayside except for really dressed up and waistcoats with shoulder guards are more commonly worn.
I also see a lot of better quality sgian dubhs instead of the glass jewel encrusted ones and proper leather sporrans; indeed there have been patterns already posted for these on the forum

Just make sure your sark covers you decently and everything's fine

My Dad and my brothers wore their kilts for 'best' too.

Cheers,
Toddy........who wears her arisaid and really likes a man in a kilt

Sir Walter Scott, ah yes, but I wonder how much he then influenced the Victorian Society that followed him.

In fact my dad always wore a Harris Tweed jacket, plain leather sporran and a plain black sgian dubh, plain shirt and tweed tie.

I had a seal skin sporran, but my dad always thought it too fancy, and I never had a sgian dubh :-(

Graham

 

[Toddy]

Aw

I do It's a beauty too

You could have one now though No reason why not.

My Dad wore the Lovat jacket and waistcoat, a plain leather sporran and a black hilted sgian dubh that he made. He inserted a thistle that he'd cut out from the handle of an old silver fork with a jeweller piercing saw, into the handle.

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[Gailainne]

On of my mates at work is getting hitched in May, and I've foolishly said I'd have a go at making his sgian dubh , afraid it aint gonna be a proper one tho, damascus steel blade with water buffalo scales and sheath, held together with pewter bolsters. If it works out you may see some photos, if not, you wont .

I've told him to have a back up ready, just in case

BTW on kilts I had 3 uncles in the Black Watch during the second world war, which I am told entitles me to wear said tartan, which I have on several occassions, weddings mostly, walking through Doncaster at lunchtime on a Saturday, was surprising, mostly for the good comments and people taking photos, it was the "Bonny Prince set up" btw, If we're not invading them the English seem to quite like a man in a kilt, the maids of honour, definately seemed to like it

Stephen

 

[myotis]

Aw

I do It's a beauty too

You could have one now though No reason why not.

My Dad wore the Lovat jacket and waistcoat, a plain leather sporran and a black hilted sgian dubh that he made. He inserted a thistle that he'd cut out from the handle of an old silver fork with a jeweller piercing saw, into the handle.

Cheers,
Toddy

I hope to get a Sgian Dubh as a utility knife. something hand made, but very simple.

A combinaton of the simplicity of this rosewood handled one here

http://www.sheffieldknives.co.uk/acatalog/Scottish_Knives.html

And the shape of one of these

http://www.sgiandubh.biz/index.php?s=C-Shop

Damascus steel maybe, and bog oak handle, and none of the fancy metalwork.

Your Dad's kilt outfit sounds just right to me

Graham

 

[Celt_Ginger]

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that...

As far as my understanding goes, I believe that to ask whether the Scotti and / or the Gaels of Dalriada were "Scots" or "Irish" is a misleading question. They were a coastal people based around the northern end of the Irish Sea - the strait was the centre of their domain, the thing that brought them together, not a boundary as we see it today. The Plain of Manannan was more bountiful and easier to traverse than the land was, so that's what their community was based around.

EDIT: I see both Graham_S and Toddy beat me to it...

I don't doubt for a minute that it's more complicated than that, but seeing that it's Paddy's day and I'm in Ireland, I need to keep it simple. We all know that the Scots and the Irish are quite a kindred people with a close heritage. Long may that be the case.

 

[myotis]

On of my mates at work is getting hitched in May, and I've foolishly said I'd have a go at making his sgian dubh , afraid it aint gonna be a proper one tho, damascus steel blade with water buffalo scales and sheath, held together with pewter bolsters. If it works out you may see some photos, if not, you wont .

I would love to see a picture. I don't think there is such a thing as a "proper" sgian dubh.

As I understand, it was any small knife that could be easily hidden. The flat shape of the handle was so it could carried under the arm pit, and it was carried as a covert weapon so I guess the the pointy stabbing blade might also be characteristic.

Graham

 

[Gailainne]

I think the "Black Knife" has had many forms, as you would think as a culture evolved, I talked to a weapons expert at the Wallace Monument once, and he talked about a blade/knife that was basically used to hamstring English knights, it kept them alive, no infections, rendered them useless in battle, ready to be sold back to their familys, apparently fairly standard practice, back then.

Stephen

On the wedding Dubh, I so hope it works out, for my friends sake if nothing else. I'll be doing a blogg as I go along, the hardest part so far has been the etching of the pewter, I've sorted that now...took a few attempts, some were'nt pretty :tongue-ti.

Like I said if it works out you'll see the results, if not you wont.

Stephen

 

[Toddy]

A couple of quick pictures of mine Warthog1981 handled the sgian for me and made the sheath
Sorry, I ought to have taken one showing the side profile, the handle is slim and shaped.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[myotis]

I think the "Black Knife" has had many forms, as you would think as a culture evolved,

Interesting how much we know so little about.

Good luck with the knife, I trust it will be good enough to share

Graham