this is why amateurs shouldn't be alowed chainsaws...

Tadpole

Full Member
Nov 12, 2005
2,842
21
60
Bristol
I cycle to work every day and I must admit that only about 30% of people I see are wearing helmets. Some people are just totally oblivious to how fragile a human body actually is..

Seems totally stupid - it's like wearing a seatbelt. Just common sense and a no-brainer.
Many years ago I was knocked off my pushbike on the way to work. apart from breaking about half of the bones down my right side of me, I hit my head, had I not been wearing a helmet, the road debris I hit first ( a bolt) would had killed me, as it was it went through the body of my helmet and about 5mm in to my head, only slightly breaking my skull.

Wear a helmet you know it makes sense:D
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,887
2,140
Mercia
As a taxpayer I pick up the very significant bill from folks utilising their free choice to smoke.

No, actually you don't. The revenue raised on the taxation of cigarettes more than covers the cost.

I know a number of healthcare professionals who believe that the figure is spurious in any case. Assuming that the cost of treating smokers is incrementally attributable to smoking is statistically incorrect. As a friend who works in terminal care once said to me.

"Everyone will have a terminal condition - once. Whether you smoke or not this is true. You are likely to require teminal care. The cost of care is based upon the condition, how long you linger and other factors - but everyone dies of something"

So actually everyone will eventually die and many will need treatment or palliative care. Is this incrementally more for smoking? Perhaps, however the reduced life expectancy also represents a net saving in terms of pension, old age care etc.

So even if you ignore the fact that the tax on cigarettes covers the health provision required as a result of smoking, there is in fact no evidence that smokers represent a greater burden to the health service over the course of their lives. Sure many die of smoking related diseases, but non smokers die of something too and also ultimately require the same care.

There is a large argument that if everyone stopped smoking your income tax would rise substantially

This does not mean of course that smoking is a sensible thing to do, but it does debunk the "burden on the state" myth - smokers are no such thing - they are net contributors.

Red (who hasn't smoked for years for the record)
 

saddle_tramp

Need to contact Admin...
Jul 13, 2008
605
1
West Cornwall
I believe the tests done to validate the safety of a bicycle helmet are carried out on a stationary model. A crash test dummy pushed over to the side and allowed to bang its head, with or without a helmet. Maybe im not seeing this right, but wouldnt any improvement to saftey from such a test, be equally applicable to pedestrians? Or would that be just a little bit silly?
 

robin wood

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 29, 2007
3,054
1
derbyshire
www.robin-wood.co.uk
No, actually you don't. The revenue raised on the taxation of cigarettes more than covers the cost.

I know a number of healthcare professionals who believe that the figure is spurious in any case. Assuming that the cost of treating smokers is incrementally attributable to smoking is statistically incorrect. As a friend who works in terminal care once said to me.

"Everyone will have a terminal condition - once. Whether you smoke or not this is true. You are likely to require teminal care. The cost of care is based upon the condition, how long you linger and other factors - but everyone dies of something"

So actually everyone will eventually die and many will need treatment or palliative care. Is this incrementally more for smoking? Perhaps, however the reduced life expectancy also represents a net saving in terms of pension, old age care etc.

So even if you ignore the fact that the tax on cigarettes covers the health provision required as a result of smoking, there is in fact no evidence that smokers represent a greater burden to the health service over the course of their lives. Sure many die of smoking related diseases, but non smokers die of something too and also ultimately require the same care.

There is a large argument that if everyone stopped smoking your income tax would rise substantially

This does not mean of course that smoking is a sensible thing to do, but it does debunk the "burden on the state" myth - smokers are no such thing - they are net contributors.

Red (who hasn't smoked for years for the record)

Yep fair point, just googled and duty income for 2001 was £9.5 billion which does indeed dwarf the estimated £1.5bn treatment cost, I guess that's maybe part of the reason we don't have a ban?
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,887
2,140
Mercia
Its an intersting point Robin certainly.

In the event that people stopped smoking, the net effect is estimated at a treasury drain of in excess of £20bn per year - loss of revenue, people living longer and claiming more pension etc.

Its a nonsense in a country with a pensions crisis to try and get people to stop smoking. Every taxpayer in the UK would face a bill of over £10 a week every week if they did!

Red
 

Rebel

Native
Jun 12, 2005
1,052
6
Hertfordshire (UK)
I'm not sure that comparing the use of chainsaws in untrained hands and the abuse of alcohol and cigarettes is a fair comparison. I'm not against idiots buying a chainsaw from Aldi (who don't sell any of the PPE to go with it) and then mutilating themselves for life or destroying property - survival of the fittest I guess. I think people should have that freedom.

What I do object to is employers forcing low-paid workers to use equipment they have not been trained to use correctly in a manner that is dangerous to both them and the public. Although health and safety has gone so far that it has become a joke I think that being properly trained and clothed in the use of chainsaws is a good idea for professionals.

On a training course it's amazing the tips and techniques in both saw usage and tree felling you can quickly learn that probably wouldn't have occurred to you without any training. You learn from mistakes that have been made in the past and the dangers to watch out for.

If you want to stand in your own back garden in your shorts and flip-flops and drop a tree on your house and have the saw kick back into your face that's up to you.
 

saddle_tramp

Need to contact Admin...
Jul 13, 2008
605
1
West Cornwall
lol, when i did my first ever chainsaw ticket, it was because of new legislation and the poor old instructor, was of limited experience, having to certificate guys whod been doing the job 20 years :lmao: to his credit, he knew the score and he werent about to fail anybody.
 

dwardo

Bushcrafter through and through
Aug 30, 2006
6,463
492
47
Nr Chester
What about forcing chainsaw manufacturers to offer free courses with a chainsaw purchase ? I bet if the course was free then people would be more inclined to take it. Cant cost much ontop of a chainsaw price if it was done on a large scale. This way people can choose to ignore the course and go their own way or take it up and maybe enjoy it :)
 
Ananova: 'I've just cut my arm off'

A Brighton man knocked on his neighbour's door after a chainsaw accident and calmly said: "I've just cut my arm off."

John Stirling, 59, was pruning a tree when the saw slipped and severed his left arm below the elbow, reports The Sun.

He went next door to tell horrified neighbour Steve Francis, who said: "He was as relaxed as can be. I didn't realise anything was wrong until I looked down and saw his arm missing."

Mr Francis, 49, called 999 and was told how to tie a tourniquet with a belt as ambulancemen raced to the scene.

He then fetched the missing limb - packing it in a bag of frozen pastries, while Mr Stirling waited on a stool.

Mr Francis, of Telscombe Cliffs, near Brighton, said: "John wasn't screaming. He's a brave man - I can't believe he didn't faint."

Mr Stirling is recovering after 14 hours of surgery to reattach his arm at East Grinstead's Queen Victoria Hospital.

A hospital spokesman said: "Early indications are the operation went well."

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_3028894.html

:notworthy
 

spamel

Banned
Feb 15, 2005
6,833
21
48
Silkstone, Blighty!
I think John was probably high as a kite on adrenaline! The foot chopping vid can be seen with audio, it's not very nice. To be fair though, somebody could so easily have died the way they took that tree down. Which they probably didn't have permission to do. Nature has her payback in the most strange of ways!
 

Rebel

Native
Jun 12, 2005
1,052
6
Hertfordshire (UK)
Yeah, those guys were clueless and a good advertisement for the need to take a tree felling course. They did almost everything wrong and things could have easily been much worse.
 

Peter_t

Native
Oct 13, 2007
1,353
3
East Sussex
standing under the tree and trying to pull it down... not smart:eek: also how high did they cut it? waste of timber
im strugeling to work out how he cut his toes off :confused: how could you miss that? and what was he trying to achive anyway?
i wouldnt advise you wach the vertion with sound if youv got a weak stomach

pete
 

stijnb

Tenderfoot
Mar 11, 2008
90
0
nederland
What about forcing chainsaw manufacturers to offer free courses with a chainsaw purchase ? I bet if the course was free then people would be more inclined to take it. Cant cost much ontop of a chainsaw price if it was done on a large scale. This way people can choose to ignore the course and go their own way or take it up and maybe enjoy it :)

that's no bad idea, although it would be easier if the sellers gave the course as most manufacturers are foreighn.
 

demographic

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
4,762
785
-------------
Cheap knackered car ready for scrapping anyway + camcorder = footage worth more than the car was anyway and you can still get a hundred notes for the scrap car.
 
Two years ago I bought a chainsaw. I'd used one very briefly on a college afternoon class and forgotten almost everything so needed to start from scratch. However I was very aware of the risks in using a chainsaw after a minor accident on a farm I was working on.
Before we criticize amateurs for the 100 or so domestic accidents that happen every year because people are using them dangerously I want to raise a Catch 22 I found myself in. Starting from scratch I wanted to do a basic chainsaw maintenance and cross cutting course. The only place I knew that run courses are my two local colleges. The nearest told me they run a 5-day course costing about £600 and I would need to bring full PPE and a chainsaw "I was familiar with." So I had to use one before I could learn to use one - dangerous to say the least.
As it happened I heard of a course run under Adult Education by a fully qualified forester over 2 Saturdays costing £145. I felt I had to get and use a new chainsaw and PPE before going on the course.
I have a 7 acre smallholding and acting on a good local dealer bought a Stihl 181 with 14 inch bar, casting about £200 and PPE for a further £200.
Now my local dealer knew the forester who instructed me and another qualified instructor so can I put out a suggestion to help novice chainsaw users to learn to use a chainsaw safely. That is that we seek to make it a legal requirement that all chainsaw sellers are obliged to provide details of local instructors as a first step in helping novices learn to work safely.
 

wattsy

Native
Dec 10, 2009
1,111
3
Lincoln
from the description on the original YouTube video

'Nosak Tree service destroyed this car for their reality show. Dont try this at home.'




 

mrcharly

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jan 25, 2011
3,257
45
North Yorkshire, UK
I believe the tests done to validate the safety of a bicycle helmet are carried out on a stationary model. A crash test dummy pushed over to the side and allowed to bang its head, with or without a helmet. Maybe im not seeing this right, but wouldnt any improvement to saftey from such a test, be equally applicable to pedestrians? Or would that be just a little bit silly?
Absolutely.

I grew up on a farm in Australia, no PPE, people still use chainsaws without PPE.

I met one bloke who'd given himself a lobotomy (removed kickback guard, you can guess the rest).
One widow; her son was cutting a large branch from a tree, Dad wandered under branch just as it fell. Very sad.

If you are using a chainsaw when wearing a pair of shorts and nothing on your feet, then you are very very careful. And just as safe as someone clad in leather boots etc (obviously not as protected as if wearing full chainsaw PPE). This is a bit similar to bicycle helmets; current 'road' helmets are about as much use in a car-bike accident as a leather boot is at stopping a chainsaw.
 

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