thinking of going "offgrid"

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Andy BB

Full Member
Apr 19, 2010
3,290
1
Hampshire
Covenants are perfectly legal and cover all sorts of things from other people having rights to cross your land or have septic tanks or even TV aerials on your land. As daveO says you may also own, or not own, riparian rights, mineral rights etc. ...

Interesting. I had always thought that all "underground" minerals etc were owned by the Crown - ie Freehold didn't entitle you to any coal for example!

Edit - I was part right -

[h=1]Legislation & policy: mineral ownership[/h] [h=2]Mineral ownership in the UK[/h] In the UK ‘minerals’ are defined in Town and Country Planning legislation as:
‘all substances in or under land of a kind ordinarily worked for removal by underground or surface working, except that it does not include peat cut for purposes other than for sale.’
With the exception of oil, gas, coal, gold and silver, the state does not own mineral rights in the UK. Generally minerals are held in private ownership, and information on mineral rights, where available, is held by the Land Registry together with details of land surface ownership.
 

xylaria

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
OP are you sure it is 7k for 5.5acres?

Because land sales are normally priced as price per acre. So for 5.5 you are looking at a price of 37k. 7k per acre is standard for good improved pasture. Derilict agriculture land and upland marsh [ie nearly useless for farmers] the price might get as low 3k, ex quarries and cleared arboculture [ie completly useless] can be very cheap but normally get sold without an agent. We had an allotment on land which the occupant bought 4.1 acres for 10k for the lot. That was poor upland pasture which had a small quarry in the middle.
 
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British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,715
1,961
Mercia
It just has to be moveable and non permanent- that can be a mobile home, caravan, modular building but it must be less than 3m in height and IIRC of a certain max m2.

I'm also fairly sure that I recall a 28 day limit on dwelling but also that it has a 1 day(?) absence to reactivate the 28 days.

If it's a lifestyle that suits you why not? Make sure you check everything before committing your cash bud.

These are answers (in parliament) on the legality of living in a caravan

1. Planning permission is required if the planning officer deems that a change in the principal use of the land, upon which the caravan stands, has occurred.

2. Where those people living in the caravan use it as an entirely separate residence (and don't, for example, use the bathroom in the house), it's almost certain that it will be deemed that such a change in the principal use of the land has taken place.

3. If those living in the caravan simply use it as an extension of the house (rather than as separate from it), planning permission might not be required but this would depend upon other factors to be considered by the local planning officer.

Additionally the 28 day rule is a total of days that a caravan or mobile structure may be occupied in any 12 months

You are permitted, without bothering with planning consent, to sleep in a caravan on your own land for 28 nights in any 12-month period.

HTH
 

Laurentius

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Aug 13, 2009
2,426
619
Knowhere
The law is an bottom really, it only applies if you are found out, and I guess if you have a big enough wood to get lost in, the likelihood of that lessens. I don't know anything about the law in particular but I did investigate buying woodland some years ago. I don't think there is any problem with dropping off a shipping container for storage of tools. What else you do with that is your own business.
 

Stew

Bushcrafter through and through
Nov 29, 2003
6,454
1,293
Aylesbury
stewartjlight-knives.com
The law is an bottom really, it only applies if you are found out, and I guess if you have a big enough wood to get lost in, the likelihood of that lessens. I don't know anything about the law in particular but I did investigate buying woodland some years ago. I don't think there is any problem with dropping off a shipping container for storage of tools. What else you do with that is your own business.

Isn't that true of any crime? ;)
 

Norton

Tenderfoot
Jul 17, 2009
59
0
46
Glasgow
Google says it's parked at a caravan site near Minehead. You don't need planning permission to park a mobile home at a permitted caravan park so you are correct.

Are you sure? The programme was Kevin Mccloud's man made home and made a big deal of him not needing planning for building this thing on his land. There is another C4 guy, a Geordie, who completely re-engineered an old static, is that the one near Minehead?

Wee edit, George Clark.

daveO I've done a bit more googling myself, the cabin is at Minehead now to prove it is a mobile home. It was originally built on his land as a mobile home to bypass planning laws. It must have worked because it was on national telly and any planning officer worth his wage would have been all over trying to prevent it if possible. It was an interesting programme and worth watching on demand if you can find it.
 
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BlueTrain

Nomad
Jul 13, 2005
482
0
77
Near Washington, D.C.
Mostly the law exists to keep people from stepping on one another's toes, in a manner of speaking. Otherwise, some would trod heavily on their neighbors. Not all laws are just and some laws seem to be written in such a way that they cannot be obeyed. Likewise, many are written so they cannot be understood. That isn't the fault of the law itself or that we have laws. Every society has laws, some unwritten. They exist so that we may live together in peace and harmony. If we don't actually live together, then the law is mostly irrelevant. Laws everywhere are mostly the same, the ones that matter. It is legal practically nowhere to murder someone, some places in the American South apperently being the exception. Burning leaves at the curbside in the fall used to be supposedly common but it wasn't legal 60 years ago in my hometown, though you could burn them in your backyard garden (meaning vegetable garden). But having an open fire in a city is a questionable activity and more of the sort of thing we might worry about here.

In the case of some of the problems described here, such as limits on how long one could keep a caravan (trailer) on one's own land and live in it, I suspect that some such laws may have originated with problems you never thought of, such as gypsies. Are there still gypsies traveling around the green and sceptered isles in these latter days?
 

daveO

Native
Jun 22, 2009
1,454
514
South Wales
Are you sure? The programme was Kevin Mccloud's man made home and made a big deal of him not needing planning for building this thing on his land. There is another C4 guy, a Geordie, who completely re-engineered an old static, is that the one near Minehead?

Wee edit, George Clark.

daveO I've done a bit more googling myself, the cabin is at Minehead now to prove it is a mobile home. It was originally built on his land as a mobile home to bypass planning laws. It must have worked because it was on national telly and any planning officer worth his wage would have been all over trying to prevent it if possible. It was an interesting programme and worth watching on demand if you can find it.

Red has detailed the laws he was trying to bypass above. He was probably allowed to build it there and use it on his land for the permitted 28 days then had to move it off to a designated caravan park or residential property. Looks like planning were on the ball with it if he's had to remove it from the land already.

I liked the design of his shed but not the ethics of the build or the practicalities. I can't imagine it's easy to tow a 4 ton shed around so if he's only allowed on his land for 28 days a campervan would have been a better choice IMO.
 

mrcharly

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jan 25, 2011
3,257
44
North Yorkshire, UK
I've lived off-grid. Only for 18months, but would have been longer if circumstances hadn't dictated otherwise.


I was 2.5miles from a city centre.


No mains connect, no water connection.


'twas on a boat, a dutch barge. I registered for a postal address and put a postbox on the end of the lane (which the postie liked since it made his life easy). Yes I paid council tax. Got a single PV panel; this was enough for low-energy lighting, charge a laptop (for movies and work) and water pump. Did rely on bottled gas for hot water and most of the cooking. Kerosene (paraffin) lamps for some lighting. Woodburner for heating and cooking some of the time.
 

BlueTrain

Nomad
Jul 13, 2005
482
0
77
Near Washington, D.C.
I ought to mention that one of the unexpected sights we saw in England when we were there summer before last was the canals and canal boats, though I don't know if many people actually live on them. It would take a considerable paring down of our accumulated junk before we could manage that. And on top of that you have to live near the water. However, around here, a few people live on their boats. From what I understand, they tend to be cold and ice can be a problem during cold winters (you have to have a "bubbler" to keep the ice from freezing). But one small sailboat owner said half the pleasure of owning a boat is being able to look out the window at it as it's anchored out in the cove. When that becomes the only pleasure, it's time to sell.

Technically, of course, you still aren't "off the grid." There's dock fees and store bought electricity is still a very convenient thing to have.
 

xylaria

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
I ought to mention that one of the unexpected sights we saw in England when we were there summer before last was the canals and canal boats, though I don't know if many people actually live on them. It would take a considerable paring down of our accumulated junk before we could manage that. And on top of that you have to live near the water. However, around here, a few people live on their boats. From what I understand, they tend to be cold and ice can be a problem during cold winters (you have to have a "bubbler" to keep the ice from freezing). But one small sailboat owner said half the pleasure of owning a boat is being able to look out the window at it as it's anchored out in the cove. When that becomes the only pleasure, it's time to sell.

Technically, of course, you still aren't "off the grid." There's dock fees and store bought electricity is still a very convenient thing to have.

Well the town the OP lives in, had a student that bought a small sea going boat and lived in it for the three years he was a student. We have a force 9 gails hitting that coast this week, so you would need sea legs even when docked. The rents in aber for students are a lot higher than the local average, you also get the life experiance of sharing a large rickety victoran terrace house with 6 other students and their interesting kitchen and bathroom habits.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ard-yacht-bought-800-save-thousands-rent.html
 

mrcharly

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jan 25, 2011
3,257
44
North Yorkshire, UK
I ought to mention that one of the unexpected sights we saw in England when we were there summer before last was the canals and canal boats, though I don't know if many people actually live on them. It would take a considerable paring down of our accumulated junk before we could manage that. And on top of that you have to live near the water. However, around here, a few people live on their boats. From what I understand, they tend to be cold and ice can be a problem during cold winters (you have to have a "bubbler" to keep the ice from freezing). But one small sailboat owner said half the pleasure of owning a boat is being able to look out the window at it as it's anchored out in the cove. When that becomes the only pleasure, it's time to sell.

Technically, of course, you still aren't "off the grid." There's dock fees and store bought electricity is still a very convenient thing to have.

As I said above, I've lived off-grid, on a boat. No mains connection. Didn't even use a generator.
No, the boat wasn't cold.
 

BlueTrain

Nomad
Jul 13, 2005
482
0
77
Near Washington, D.C.
I can only sympathize with the plight of free born Englishmen. It works a little different in the states but one quickly discovers that it isn't easy for ordinary people. If you have some land way off somewhere, it's one thing. But if you have a place close in, then it's a different thing. The basic problem here is that if someone with more money or more influence wants to do something and you're in the way, then watch out! Another thing is that the whole permit system has wound up being a very expensive thing, although that varies. Essentially, someone decided that each governmental department (at the local level) ought to be paying its own way, in a manner of speaking, and then the fees took off.

Another thing is that it seems like developers (people who build housing developments) can always get their way, although it does seem that sometimes some illegal activities are involved, such as cutting down trees in the middle of the night, which has happened here. But sometimes it's funny. My wife's parents moved to the country about 35 years ago to a nice place on the water, just off the Chesapeake Bay. They moved to a place where lots of others went to retire. Well, a lot of the "come heres," as they're called, tended to want things the way they were where they came from, usually the city or suburbs. So you eventually had a rural area with city rules. It frustrated my father-in-law but he was easily frustrated.
 

mrcharly

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jan 25, 2011
3,257
44
North Yorkshire, UK
Well, a lot of the "come heres," as they're called, tended to want things the way they were where they came from, usually the city or suburbs. So you eventually had a rural area with city rules. It frustrated my father-in-law but he was easily frustrated.

Boat owners suffer from that. Posh apartments are put up overlooking old wharfs. Then the owners of the apartments object to the 'messy old boats' spoiling their view.
 

BlueTrain

Nomad
Jul 13, 2005
482
0
77
Near Washington, D.C.
There is a town near where I live that used to be a regular seaport. And just like you described, there are posh apartments along the riverfront with fancy price tags. Only in this case, no one docks there anymore. All that remains of the old docks are the pilings, mostly. People dock their boats elsewhere. There is another side to this thing of going off grid. Two sides, actually. It wasn't that long ago that some people who lived back and beyond only got electricity, although it may now be more than 50 years (time flies). Those people were quite happy to have electricity in the house. Telephones came later. "City water" doesn't exist for most people in the country and some places in the US, water is a scarce resource. So lots of people who have lived in the country for generations would just laugh at the idea of going off grid. Going off the grid is old stuff now, too. There was a sort of back to the land movement in the late 1960s and 1970s. I expect that most who thought the grass was greener in the country have moved back to the city since then but it was quite a thing 40 years ago. That was the Whole Earth Catalog experience. Communes, self-reliance, back-to-nature, flower-power, tie-dyed drop-outs. There are a few diehards out there yet. Many of those people sought out places where they would be undisturbed and where the land was cheap. There are such places not so very far from here, although any place where the land is cheap is going to reflect the fact that the land is not that desireable, though opinions differ. I am familiar with places where the population is half what it was fifty years ago and they weren't such great places then, either. In fact, some communities exist now only as a name of a map. How you would go about acquiring property in such a place, I do not know. Fifty miles away, conditions can be night and day. Say, there is an accordian recording called the "Flower Power Party Polka." I kid you not!
 

didicoy

Full Member
Mar 7, 2013
541
12
fens
Just thinking out loud. What's to stop you buying an acre of land and having the vendor sell it as say 13 adjacent plots and living in a caravan there permanently?
Planners are wise to that and can and will serve notice on the whole number of plots as well as the title owner. even if its separated by a highway or several other land properties. it gets more viable when plots are in different districts, counties to reside under the 28 day rule.
 

daveO

Native
Jun 22, 2009
1,454
514
South Wales
Planning. :banghead:

You say it like it's a bad thing. If it wasn't this way I imagine land values would rocket and every field would have a caravan in it whether they look after the place or not. The countryside would be a mess and farming wouldn't be viable anymore for a start. At the risk of repeating what people have said: if it could be done then it would be done. Lots of people talk about supposed planning loopholes but you can't just buy agricultural land and live on it (legally).
 

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