thinking of going "offgrid"

[ammo]

Good luck. I can't believe the trouble you can get in, just by building your family a home, on your own private land.

 

[sandbender]

Good luck. I can't believe the trouble you can get in, just by building your family a home, on your own private land.

It isn't that hard to believe, your own private land and what you do on it will affect the private land surrounding yours.

If you live in the town and your neighbour builds a two story shed that blocks the sun shining on your garden you wouldn't be happy.

If you live in the town and your neighbour decides to convert his home into a twenty four hour fast food outlet (with moped delivery service), you wouldn't be happy.

If you live in the country and someone builds a septic tank the overflow of which drains onto the field that your drinking water comes from you wouldn't be happy.

If you live in the country and your neighbour decides to concrete over an area of his land so his expensive cars don't get muddy and in doing so he buries a t-junction and inspection hatch for the private water supply for him, yourself and several others, you wouldn't be happy.

Etc.

 

[didicoy]

I doubt very much that it does work. But if they come out in court, and use something in evidence against you, that they obtained while trespassing, then it weakens their case.

You really are talking a load of twaddle & in a case where people may be investing their entire life savings. Only facts are relevent. People saying "they know" a way around the planning system???? really? there are some very good books and websites dealing with living off grid and not one of them has a clear cut method of obtaining planning consent via the back door. I'm daily in contact with hundreds of people trying to find ways. I live OFF GRID & have done so for over 25 years. I've always been confronted with the local authorities during the first 20 years (I do now have planning permission to live in my mobile home) but that is also (restricted) planning permission. Remember, if it is that easy to buy a bit of land, thow a few grand at it and then legally reside on the land. Not only would all the UK investers be interested, but the countryside would be full of European migrant workers, who don't mind roughing it.

 

[xylaria]

I said a while back to my bestfriend and Girlfriend that I might buy some land. Now if I build a "portable home" *cough cough* from Timber I would be a lot happier as I could do what the hell I wanted with my land. Although not exactly anything but Close enough.

Now here's the thing, if I buy land there's something I'd like to know, if anyone knows the answer

Can I get some from of address allocated to a plot of land? There's a plot of land I've seen that £7k~ for around 5.5 acres (not sure if this is good?) and it has road access so I'd like to stick a post box up by the gate for mail and then by the logcabin thing I could have fruit and veg growing

Thanks

Good luck. You have found some very cheap land for mid wales. We are looking at doing the same, buying delerlict scrub/rhos and working it. We werent going to build though, much easier to have mobile dwellings. Most cheap land needs working first before any viable food production can be achieved. Most other hurdles can be acheived by being good to your neighbours and playing fair. It is not uncommon to have postboxes at the end of lanes, you just put one up with a name on it and tell the postie where it is, or ask a nieghbour to take your mail. Expect to offer the same nieghbour help with lambing or offer free eggs and veg, or fixing their computer. A 5 acre small holding is not a part time job by the way.

 

[bearbait]

I met a guy in Cumbria doing pretty much what Uilleachan is suggesting. He had a small piece of woodland, a few spots for camping, a couple of yurts owned by someone else for glamping (so I guess he was getting rent for those), a woodyard selling firewood from his woodland and smokeless fuels. He hosted a couple of very small folky events each year. He had a couple of shipping containers, one of which he was converting into a home.

Of course, if you have a piece of woodland a shipping container is great secure storage for your woodland management tools, the barbie, etc. etc...And it's not a permanent structure.

 

[feralpig]

You really are talking a load of twaddle & in a case where people may be investing their entire life savings. Only facts are relevent. People saying "they know" a way around the planning system???? really? there are some very good books and websites dealing with living off grid and not one of them has a clear cut method of obtaining planning consent via the back door. I'm daily in contact with hundreds of people trying to find ways. I live OFF GRID & have done so for over 25 years. I've always been confronted with the local authorities during the first 20 years (I do now have planning permission to live in my mobile home) but that is also (restricted) planning permission. Remember, if it is that easy to buy a bit of land, thow a few grand at it and then legally reside on the land. Not only would all the UK investers be interested, but the countryside would be full of European migrant workers, who don't mind roughing it.

You do sound somewhat confused, but I have no interest in trying to straighten things out in your mind for you. Maybe re reading my posts would help you.

 

[daveO]

You do need planning permission for temporary residential caravans. http://www.ceredigion.gov.uk/utilities/action/act_download.cfm?mediaid=47487&langtoken=eng Page 89 if you don't believe me. Don't think this will be granted in open countryside though.

That hive thing on Amazing Spaces sometimes complies with permitted development for existing dwellings as long as it is an annexe to that existing dwelling and fits a lot of other criteria as well.

 

[BlueTrain]

Is it even possible to "go off the grid" and was it ever possible? In some places it is conceivably possible, in others, not so easy and in others, next to impossible. One of the difficulties is in finding a place sufficiently remote enough so that you won't bother anyone, yet is still somewhere you'd actually like to live. If you're flexible, it's easier. But no one can really shut themselves off from the rest of the world. If they have, by definition, we'll never hear about it.

But where I live, it's relatively easy, provided you don't mind driving over fifty miles to work every day--one way. My daughter's parents-in-law live in such a place but does he ever complain about the commute. They bought a place way, way out in the country. They have a nice enough house, save for the four dogs (they have a corgi) and unnumbered cats that roam the house. They also have chickens which are kept in a fenced in space. Neighbors have all sorts of livestock. They have their own water and septic system but they do have electricity which I do not think has ever gone out since they've live there, which is about six or seven years. The water supply, however, is poor and they don't have a lot to spare. But they live far enough out so that nothing they do will bother anyone and none of their neighbors bother them, or so I am led to believe. I would find it a nice enough place to live but my wife wouldn't but we'll leave my wife out of it.

Two things, though. They would hardly tolerate anyone taking up residence on their property nor would anyone else anywhere around there. I can't imagine anyone thinking that they could do something like that and get away with it, at least in the East or anywhere in Europe. And secondly, they just live there. They are part of the world. They get up and go to work and buy groceries at the closest supermarket even if they have to drive five miles for a quart of milk. They just live "aways away." I've known lots of people like that, mostly relatives. The curious thing is that none of them ever talk about being "off the grid." What they do is perfectlyl normal for them. And don't you dare trespass either.

 

[didicoy]

You can get the post office to deliver your mail pretty much anywhere you like.
The land will be inside a post code, then a postal town, then a county. Call your place whatever you like, stick your name on the top and tell them who you are. (In theory......)In theory! But the PO have no duty to post to any address other than a address registered with a local authority as a residence or a business address. Often you come across a nice postman, who will go the extra mile.

If you have kids, forget it, you'll have social services breathing down your neck before you can say child neglect. This is not the case, no more than if issues were raised about dependent children living in any home. I have been active with home educating traveler kids.

Otherwise, there are ways.
The authoritys don't really care where you live, Ho yes they do! they won't be looking into it, until someone complains. They have updated tiles on their desk top computer. These are updated every quarter. They can monitor vehicle tracks on the ground, building development etc. Once you are on radar, they have a duty to monitor.
Then they will look into it. What they really want is council tax. True & everyone to abide by planning law

Don't build anythng, don't go digging big holes, don't give them any levers. Don't cause any pollution.
Live in a vehicle, that is running and road legal. If it is a big camper van, then all the better. Take it from the property often, this makes it very difficult for them to prove you are living there. They have not got the finances or the resources to do a 24 hour stakeout, to gather enough evidence to satisfy a Judge that you are living there. All they have to do is notify you that it is illegal to reside on the land, in what ever vehicle or structure. The rest is up to you if you choose to disregard the notice

Legally inform any interested authoritys that you have removed their implied right of access to the property. This can be observed from satalite and a letter delivered to you inperson by a agent of the courts, Ie: a council official They now need a warrant to set foot on your property. Not if you are in breach of a planning notice. For this they need the signature of a Judge,(or maybe a magistrate, not too sure) The Council protocol is to act acording to the law. After issuing the property owner of a notice, they don't have to do anymore other than ask the court to act upon the planning breach. The chances of them getting it are pretty small. They serve notice all the time, its straight forward, not costly nor time consuming. You can go down the appeals route, but ultimately the Sec of State will have the final word. Ant costs incured could be claimed back from the applicant, ie: you or the land owner If you can afford it, force them to deal with you through a solicitor. This should prevent them doing anything illegal. Good point, as this is all about avoiding doing anything illegal

You may get away with it for years, you may get shopped straight away. If you play your cards right, they will give in, and give you a two year temporary mobile home permit, or something like that. This is total nonsense, any temporary permit/licence/planning decision is just that. worded and final. If you wish to extend and given rights, you have to start the planning procedure from scratch and pay to apply From there, you should be able to get permanent mobile home permission. Again not with out submitting a full planning application.Then you will have to pay council tax. agreed.

If you get shopped, you are going to have to fight, and do it right, but you can win. They will give in, unless you slip up. You can string it out for years. Move off the land for a few weeks, if things start to get a bit hot, and when you go back, it's all back to square one again. Unfortunately the notice is not only served on the person, the owner, but on the land itself.

You could start a viable business, but even established farms struggle to get planning for a workers house, so I wouldn't bet to much on it.

Good luck, fight the bast*rds. It's a poor show when a man can't live quietly on a piece of land he has bought and paid for.

agreed. I have read your posts. What bit am I confused about?

 

[rik_uk3]

I inherited a bungalow and some land a few years ago and trust me when I say getting legal permission to build house(s) ain't as straightforward as I thought it would be. Lots of complicated legal issues meant I could only really start the planning process two years ago but its given me headaches to say the least lol.

I've had to involve solicitors and architects and have followed the application process but it only needs one or two locals to show their faces and everything can get stalled...and stalled and stalled. Anyway, the end is in sight for us thankfully.

Buying a plot of land in the UK, certainly England and Wales with the hope of erecting a temporary home (call it what you like) would I believe be a fast road headaches and frustration.

OP, think hard and long before splashing out your £8k, you could well end up with a plot you can do nothing with bar some camping.

 

[feralpig]

I was posting up what I know has been done, I've seen it done and I know the people involved.
I have no problem in you posting your experiences, go right ahead.
I will restrain myself from pointing out where I disagree with you, that is not the topic of the thread.
Grabs coat and walks out.......

 

[Stringmaker]

OP, think hard and long before splashing out your £8k, you could well end up with a plot you can do nothing with bar some camping.

Which is what the vendors of the land often know and hope that the buyer doesn't...

 

[British Red]

Most vendors of land with any sense now put a covenant on the land that if it is built on or the use changed, you owe them money...a lot of money usually.

 

[Qwerty]

Most vendors of land with any sense now put a covenant on the land that if it is built on or the use changed, you owe them money...a lot of money usually.

That seems quite remarkable. I wonder if it has ever been challenged in law?

 

[daveO]

Development claw-back clauses are pretty common if there's a wiff of a chance of the land value increasing. I think you can challange it but if you've signed a contract when you buy the land you don't stand a huge chance of it being revoked but maybe it could be amended for good reason.

On the off-grid topic, I've recently started a re-design on an 18th century cottage near Abergavenny which has apparently been off-grid until the occupant passed away recently. Water collected from the roof, parafin lamps and solid fuel heating/cooking. It didn't sell for much more than a standard starter home either. There are still properties out there like this but they're getting very rare now.

 

[didicoy]

I bought my 5 acres 26 years ago. On the day of signing for it, I was told that it had a Public Right of Way through the middle of the plot, that had previously been TEMP diverted by the farmer (legally) Also that an estate who once, long long ago owned the land still owned any mineral rights that go with the land for ever.

 

[British Red]

That seems quite remarkable. I wonder if it has ever been challenged in law?

Covenants are perfectly legal and cover all sorts of things from other people having rights to cross your land or have septic tanks or even TV aerials on your land. As daveO says you may also own, or not own, riparian rights, mineral rights etc. There are some right weird ones out there though - some say you cannot keep chickens on your land as an example

Its not surprising really - they started because people would buy plots of land as add ons to their garden, allotments etc. then sell them as building plots once outline permission had been granted. Covenants on land re-use are generally not "in perpetuity" but for a term - 20 years is common.

 

[Norton]

Kevin Macleod on channel four built a rather marvellous shed/mobile home last year. Google it as he didn't need planning.

 

[daveO]

Kevin Macleod on channel four built a rather marvellous shed/mobile home last year. Google it as he didn't need planning.

Google says it's parked at a caravan site near Minehead. You don't need planning permission to park a mobile home at a permitted caravan park so you are correct.

 

[widu13]

Someone mentioned planning to me but a "mobile home" *technically* a caravan but built on site shouldn't need it aslong as the structure can be split into two halves for moving should I need it (from what I've found online and in the Uni law library/and a random question I may or may not have asked in the Rural laws and regulations lecture I snook into

It just has to be moveable and non permanent- that can be a mobile home, caravan, modular building but it must be less than 3m in height and IIRC of a certain max m2.

I'm also fairly sure that I recall a 28 day limit on dwelling but also that it has a 1 day(?) absence to reactivate the 28 days.

If it's a lifestyle that suits you why not? Make sure you check everything before committing your cash bud.