I was with him yesterday. The only trees dead were the ones that had been tapped. In one case a tree had a split trunk. The untapped side was still healthy. Tapped side dead. I'll text him to get a picture as he is there now.
The stark Truth about Birch-tapping.
- Thread starter JonathanD
- Start date
It's one of those no win things 
He tapped the trees and plugged them with all good intentions, and following the advice available to him.
It's greatly to his credit that he did record, that he did go back, and that he has not only recognised the issue, but has reported his concerns to a wider audience.
If the technique is wrong, and is killing trees, then we need to stop doing it. We need to get good clear information out among the folks who would tap birches.
I'm wondering how it's done in Scandinavia and Russia ? where they have no maples but masses of birch ? Maybe instead of a N.American model we should be looking at a N. European one.
atb,
M
He tapped the trees and plugged them with all good intentions, and following the advice available to him.
It's greatly to his credit that he did record, that he did go back, and that he has not only recognised the issue, but has reported his concerns to a wider audience.
If the technique is wrong, and is killing trees, then we need to stop doing it. We need to get good clear information out among the folks who would tap birches.
I'm wondering how it's done in Scandinavia and Russia ? where they have no maples but masses of birch ? Maybe instead of a N.American model we should be looking at a N. European one.
atb,
M
Addendum....Our climate. We live on the north Atlantic islands, but our climate is temperate.
Our birch trees rarely grow thick barks; it's just generally not cold enough. In Northern America, and in Northern Europe, they have a continental climate. It gets very cold, a deep cold that lasts, during Winter. We can have a Winter that never actually freezes. Maybe that's why there is an issue. Our mild weather allows the survival of pathogens and rot, while the deep hard cold not only encourages thicker bark, but kills off a lot of the disease vectors.
Interesting article.
https://pbsociety.org.pl/journals/index.php/asbp/article/viewFile/asbp.2012.036/998
atb,
M
Our birch trees rarely grow thick barks; it's just generally not cold enough. In Northern America, and in Northern Europe, they have a continental climate. It gets very cold, a deep cold that lasts, during Winter. We can have a Winter that never actually freezes. Maybe that's why there is an issue. Our mild weather allows the survival of pathogens and rot, while the deep hard cold not only encourages thicker bark, but kills off a lot of the disease vectors.
Interesting article.
https://pbsociety.org.pl/journals/index.php/asbp/article/viewFile/asbp.2012.036/998
atb,
M
xylaria
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Good research.
Dont feel gutted you have saved countless trees from future bad tapping. We all know now.
Thank you.
Dont feel gutted you have saved countless trees from future bad tapping. We all know now.
Thank you.
Wow fascinating stuff, when I've tapped a birch I just used my knife the wedged a bic pen outer into it to direct the run to my pot then sealed it, have no other conclusions as the tree was on the edge of Thetford forest and has since been cut down. But reading this has made me think twice about the auger bit I was looking to make. The pen method filled the pot with as much and as quick as wanted. Good read and would be interested to see what woodlore et al say..
Sent from somewhere?
Sent from somewhere?
Yeah I was wondering if our climate made up the difference as well.
Mind in some countries where they tap birch I'd imagine that there's so many to go at that it might not make much difference to the overall.
Bear in mind that if you tap into the main trunk it's like tapping in to a water main rather than a side branch. I'll see what I can find about maples. Some garden shrubs and trees are much more likely to keep dribbling than others if you prune them in the spring so it might just be a simple difference in structure or the ability of the tree to seal off a wound.
Toddy, you may well be onto something with respect to climate and the resultant structure of the bark. Extreme cold would slow any internal fluid flow dramatically too which would give it a chance to seal off without bacterial or fungal infection.
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Was speaking to a chap from Canada who lives in the next town about this the other week and they do it on an industrial scale. They have hundreds of trees all tapped, leading into bigger pipes which come down to a massive agricultural type shed where it's collected. He recons it didn't harm the trees as they'd been doing it in the same area for generations and the trees lived as long as others that hadn't been tapped. (They were maples for syrup rather than birch.)
Also had friends up at near Fochabers who tapped all the birch on his land for making wine (absolutely lethal it was), and he'd been at it for 30 odd years and his trees were as healthy as those bordering his property.
Taking any crop from a plant will have an effect on it; to some its actually beneficial. But as long as other stresses of environmental factors don't come into play as long as you do it carefully it shouldn't kill a healthy tree as long as you follow good husbandry practices.
Also had friends up at near Fochabers who tapped all the birch on his land for making wine (absolutely lethal it was), and he'd been at it for 30 odd years and his trees were as healthy as those bordering his property.
Taking any crop from a plant will have an effect on it; to some its actually beneficial. But as long as other stresses of environmental factors don't come into play as long as you do it carefully it shouldn't kill a healthy tree as long as you follow good husbandry practices.
xylaria
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
From my field of knowledge (not expertise! !!) Acers are appear more robust against fungal infections. Their bark heals from natural injuries better. It is not common to find any form of fungus on the wood of maples or sycamores. The leaves yes but anything on trunk no. Birch seems to play the numbers game, germinate well grow fast and form big stands, then die young. It is far more common to find rotting birch. Birch only seems to get to any age in other countries that are drier and have proper winters.
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What would your definition of a control sample be?
There are at least 300 -350 silver birch that would be considered canopy adults in those woods. Apart from four that were wind blown and one that fell due to a hollow trunk that it had for near on 15 years. The correlation between those dead trees, the live trees and tapping is pretty concise. For example, If you had 350 rats and you fed them all the same diet apart from 15, then after time all those 15 died and the others thrived. The conclusion would be pretty straightforward. And the living trees are perfect control samples as they haven't been tapped.
Remember I've been away from the woods for quite a while and these trees died in the last 3 years and the results now are rotten trees that have collapsed and are well advanced in terms of rot and death occurred at least two years ago.
I can give you a load of photo's of the other trees. Polypore isn't widespread in these woods, and is found on the stumps of a few of the dead trunks.
The results are so slow (7 years), that a detailed study of this method would be a long way off. But I strongly urge people to drop this method of tapping.
Easy now. All I said was that in the results you presented there was no control sample.
I know (went into factual reporting mode, so my posts are blunt, but don't take that personally. It's what I'm used too when writing reports and I'm all out of humor on my birch killing).
But what would you consider a control sample MM? Wouldn't that be the untapped trees?
I'm feeling pretty sucky (not in a Southey way) about these trees. They were healthy and not due for the chop. The only comfort I can take is from the woodpeckers that are using one to nest in.
A statistically significant sample of trees of a similar age and location to the ones tapped.
From what you initially told us we had no way of knowing if all Birch trees over a certain age died. If you wanted to prove causation then you would need a statistically significant sample that died and a control sample that proves the rule.
I'm guessing you picked certain trees to tap, maybe based on age or even accessibility, but I emphasise "guessing". Not saying you're wrong by any means, just that it warrants further investigation.
Birch and Maple are quite different. Most of the fallen, rotten trees in the woods I walk in are birch. They seem very susceptible to disease, fungi all over them. From what I recall Birch life span is 25-30 years. Maple seems much hardier.
I will follow this thread hoping for an answer. I wont be tapping Birch until I can be sure I am not killing it off. Great thread.
I will follow this thread hoping for an answer. I wont be tapping Birch until I can be sure I am not killing it off. Great thread.
Ahh, well, there you go then. There are so many birch all of a similar age in the same location as I've mentioned. It was why I chose the original 15. I didn't target old and I didn't target young. They were all trees of at least 12 -15 inches radius measured around the trunk 20 inches from the ground. From all the trees in that same area, they are the only dead ones. Even taken as an extremely unscientific study, the evidence is pretty conclusive.
bambodoggy
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Birch are often referred to as a "pioneer species", they can grow in very poor sandy soil (I live on a sandy heathland and we are inundated with birch and pine). They will live for a short time in tree terms, maybe 70 to 130 odd years and then die dropping their decaying goodness into the soil, after a few rounds of this the soil quality improves and other species can be supported until we get to what is known as the "climatic climax", which in this country is oak. This is why there is so many of them in certain areas (usually where the soil isn't great), as with all things in nature they have a job to do...a purpose to all this growing and dying.....they allow evolution, they are true pioneers and one of my favourite trees
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