The sleeping bag minefield

[Xylophile]

my next big purchase is a sleeping bag, but its such a big purchase that i want to get it right first time.

I currently have a Outwell comfort 1700 that I was gifted from my sister. My first solo semi-wild camp I woke up a few times through the cold it got to around 0c. I sleep in a helly hanson thermal top, long john themals, anti blister socks and a storm proof woolley hat, i was also in a one man tent.

The bag is heavy, but more importantly its bloody bulky, it takes up at least half my bag.

I want this thing to last, i want to do this in what ever the weather throws at me but if i'm honest i probably wont camp much in the depths of winter. I want to get rid of the bulk, id like to get rid of some of the weight but bulk is my main concern.

Now ive been confronted with down vs sythetic. Ive read that down is more expensive but lasts longer ( I have a down quilt at home and love it) is any of this true?

Ive read that down compresses more than sythetic - so it would be less bulky and less weighty again is this true?

Then we have the comfort ratings, my bag is supposed to be a comfort 2c for fellas and 6c for lasses. But i woke up so im now looking at -5c's am i being overly worried?

If this thing is going last i have a decent budget, i dont mind spending on good quality kit. But dont want to be fleeced for substandard garbage either.

Im tenting at the moment but do have asperations to get in a hammock one day


I know this a long post but if you could offer any support and advise even a recommendation id be extremely grateful.

 

[bopdude]

A down bag will last IF looked after, it will save on bulk and weight, although some down bags do get to silly weights, the downside is looking after them in the field and subsequent cleaning if they get dirty / wet stained etc the question of weight though, your probably talking a difference of a half kilo ish, depending on the bag ? If it's bulk rather than weight go synthetic and carry the sleeping bag outside your pack is an option. A bag is very much a personal choice, the best bag I've had was the Carinthia Defence 4, big bulky, not too heavy but warm.

2cents

 

[Big G]

A good down bag will offer less weight and bulk.. But you have take more care with down vs synthetic. Down bags take longer to dry out when wet. Expect to pay a few hundred for a decent down bag.

 

[Xylophile]

I don't mind paying a few hundred I don't mind that it'll need specialist cleaning. I do mind spending a few hundred then finding out its still not the right one

 

[Big G]

Your best bet is go around a few camping shops.. Test some sleeping bags out while your there. See what you like and don't like on each bag.

 

[Xylophile]

i was looking at the softie 9 hawk, as I liked the fact that you could add to it for winter. So the versatility was a huge factor, but then I read about quality issues and was put off

 

[MikeLA]

Never ever had a problem with snugpak sleeping bags and have been using google them since the early 90's. So if you want the hawk go for it

 

[bopdude]

Of course a bag isn't everything, depends on what your gonna sleep on / in / around etc

 

[petrochemicals]

I was talking to someone in a shop about this. Synthetic is 1/2 as heavy again and twice the bulk he reccons. Given that we also discussed down only being as insulating when dry, and any temperature over 0c having humidity, you don't get the most of the insulation due to damp. He said that you would get the best from down when taking a seriosly warm sleeping bag starting from -20 down in sub zero temperatures. You can spend a fair ammount on synthetice, a rab ignition comes in at 150 quid

 

[baggins]

Oooo kaaay!
Just been through this with my good lady.
Down V synthetic, Down, weight for weight, is offers much more insulation (i won't say warmer as it all depends on the sleeper and system you use).
Yes, Down is more susceptible to dampness but that all depends on where you are sleeping. In a tent or well covered hammock or decent divvy, the down should stay dry and so moisture shouldn't be a problem, plus a lot of manufactures offer a type of hydrophobic treated down that allows the down to keep its loft in damp conditions (how effective this is, i couldn't say).
Properly looked after, down will last a lot longer than synthetic. saying that, i have a 20 year old Ajungilak bag that is still going strong.
You can pay a lot for a decent down bag, but quality is worth paying for. look for fill power, the higher the better (750cui to 850cui), the ethics of where the down is sourced, internal and external fabrics.
Fit is also important, are you a move in or move with person? I personally like to fidget in the bag but like the bag to stay put. i use a fjallraven polar bag, expensive but the best bag i've ever owned.
My good lady has just ordered a PHD bag in their sale, looks a great bag but got to wait another 3 weeks to see what its like. (PHD offer a build your own bag service, which seems like a great idea).
hope this has helped
Baggins

 

[Xylophile]

It has, I am leaning toward down but frankly I've been looking at specs of bags for 3 days and I'm lost

 

[Hibrion]

I don't want to preach, but If you are inclined to take animal welfare into account, you might like to check the origin of the down should you make that choice. It may seing you towards the synthetic or a mire humanely produced down bag.

 

[mrcharly]

I've never had a down bag - mostly I've been put off by the need to manage the damp. Lost count of the times I've woken up with dank condensation under my sleeping bag. Yes, this is manageable. Seems to me that it is sensible to learn how to manage that before investing hundreds in a down sleeping bag.

Then there are the times when weather has turned very very foul, tent has gone up in lashing relentless rain and despite best efforts, kit has gotten wet. Either a bit damp or properly wet. That led me to trying a buffalo bag, which I love (but very weighty and bulky).

Some people have good success using a down gilet and wearing that inside a synthetic sleeping bag.

 

[Philster]

I have a Carinthia Defense 4 which is great for the winter months as I've never been cold in it. It's a big bag to pack though. I recently picked up a Snugpak Sleeper lite which packs down nice and small (size of a football), is very warm and cosy and weighs not too much. They do a Sleeper zero which weighs even less if you want to save another 400g. Very impressed with the Lite, though - lofts up nicely and is soft and cosy inside. And a bargain at £35!!

 

[bopdude]

You could always hire a couple of bags to try out before you buy to give an idea ?

http://www.outdoorhire.co.uk/quick-links/sleeping-bags.php

 

[Xylophile]

I noticed the alpkit bags are all Chinese down. So I ignored them

 

[Xylophile]

so down isn't the be all and end all then? My current bag is 1.7kg so not a huge weight but if I have my wallet out id like to get that number down at least.

 

[Wayne]

In my opinion Down bags are the only way to go. I cannot understand why people skimp on their sleep system then don't go out. I have never had a problem with a damp bag. 12 days canoeing in torrential rain bag got damp still performed gone. A wet bag is miserable whatever material it's made of.

I have several Rab down bags and a big Agnes. Plus a couple of others floating around I use for the hounds. My bags get a lot of use. 200 plus nights a year on average.

 

[copper_head]

I noticed the alpkit bags are all Chinese down. So I ignored them

Alpkit down is all ethically sourced. In fact they stopped production of their bags a couple of years back until they could an ethical supplier for their down.

That said if your doing most of your camping in our wet climate I think synthetic is the way to go. I use a snugpak softie 9 in winter and an elite 2 the rest of the year. Does me fine, I have a snugpak top quilt and underquilt for hammock camping.

 

[Tonyuk]

"Now ive been confronted with down vs sythetic. Ive read that down is more expensive but lasts longer ( I have a down quilt at home and love it) is any of this true?"

Yes & No,

Down in general is warmer than synthetic insulation on a weight-to-weight basis, meaning you can have a lighter bag. Also, because the down filaments themselves are thinner than synthetic, they can pack down smaller, they also drape slightly better. Older forms of synthetic insulation had a relatively short lifespan, in that the efficiency would drop off relatively quickly since the constant packing into a stuff sack degraded the fibers. This is much improved on now. Does this mean that down is better? Not really. True its slightly warmer and packs down smaller, but it really falls down at how robust it is. Down is packed into a bag as a fill, with baffles sewn in to prevent it moving about too much, due to this if the bag gets wet from rain, condensation, ground moisture, getting in with damp clothes etc.. The down clumps together, massively reducing its insulating value. Also, drying them out is extremely difficult in the field. Synthetic is much better for this. Since its a sewn in wadding it doesn't clump together and can still insulate very well when wet. There are loads of stories online about people falling into rivers, then drying out in their sleeping bags, there's also a few of people getting into completely soaked synthetic bags and waking up warm and almost dry. With the climate we have i would recommend a good quality synthetic 3 season bag. I like the mountain hardware lamina range. A bag from them with a comfort of about -5c should see you well.

Speaking of comfort ratings take them with a big pinch of salt. The testing isn't always realistic, and everyone sleeps differently etc.. Always look for reviews. One brand i would be careful of from previous experience is Snugpak, their ratings are notoriously optimistic.

Tonyuk