The sleeping bag minefield

[Barney Rubble]

Alpkit bags are worth a look and get a lot of positive comments on here. I have the Mountain Ghost bag (as advertised at the top of this forum), it's synthetic but feels very similar to down and packs down very small. Everyone will differ in their opinions but I find the comfort rating (-0.8 c) to be about right as I've used it through the winter in temperatures that have floated around this limit. My camping buddy has one of the Alpkit down bags which also seems to perform to it's stated comfort limit.

Personally, if I was you I'd probably focus on getting a good quality 3 season bag with a comfort limit that'll take you down to zero or thereabouts. That'll keep you warm in all but the coldest of conditions that the UK typically experiences. No need to get a huge sleeping bag that keeps you warm down to -1squillion if you're not likely to camp out in those arctic climates. If the forecast tells you it will get colder then get yourself a nice wool blanket. In any case the blanket will prove to be a good versatile bit of kit. Alternatively, invest good money in the bag that you'll use all year round and then spend 30-40 quid on a British army arctic bag that you can use when the temperature plummets. I don't own an arctic bag but I know lots of people that do and not one has ever complained of having a cold night in one!

 

[Xylophile]

I'm looking at the rab summit 600 with great interest. Thankfully with were I live we have a decent number of camping shops near by and even a mountaineering shop so I'm gonna have a try. The compression size 30x17 as opposed to 42x22 and the weight saving is 630g so fairly significant whilst changing the comfort rating from +2 to -2.

It seems to tick all boxes and its within budget too


edit: compression size seems to be a bit hit or miss. The site I'm looking at has it listed as the spec above the manufacture has a different reading 39x22........

2nd edit: ive spoken to Rab who are going to dig one and measure

 

[Tomteifi]

Am entirely happy with my recent purchase of a Wiggys Ultralite hunter rectangular XL bag(pillow included foc). A fantastic piece of kit that will last me out. Can't say a single bad word about it. The ONLY downer was actually getting it to me. It took four days to get across the USA and into UK- it then took over ten days for the lazy suds at Border control to release it. More jobsworths there than you can shake a stick at. I've teamed it with a cocoon cotton anti insect liner and it couldn't be more comfortable. Am using it on a thermarest. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

 

[Xylophile]

Am entirely happy with my recent purchase of a Wiggys Ultralite hunter rectangular XL bag(pillow included foc). A fantastic piece of kit that will last me out. Can't say a single bad word about it. The ONLY downer was actually getting it to me. It took four days to get across the USA and into UK- it then took over ten days for the lazy suds at Border control to release it. More jobsworths there than you can shake a stick at. I've teamed it with a cocoon cotton anti insect liner and it couldn't be more comfortable. Am using it on a thermarest. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

Customs is a bitch,

I ordered a billy can from amazon paid for all the extra shipping to guarantee delivery for the morning of my trip. gave up in the end, got to my pitch and got a email telling me it was delivered




Rab have been back to me and told me there dimensions are the optimum compression, the guy on the phone was really helpful, and hinted without advising me that this can be shrunk more.

 

[Big G]

spend 30-40 quid on a British army arctic bag that you can use when the temperature plummets. I don't own an arctic bag but I know lots of people that do and not one has ever complained of having a cold night in one!

Aye.. the british army arctic bags are good.. i have one.. think i paid £20 quid for mine.

Cons - Big - Bulky - Heavy.

Pros - Centre zip - Roomy - Warm.

 

[Old Bones]

Rab have been back to me and told me there dimensions are the optimum compression, the guy on the phone was really helpful, and hinted without advising me that this can be shrunk more.

Down bags can really compress - get a compression spider from somewhere (best deals at the moment are on Planet X's remaining stock of Pod stuff - there's a half price code on the site for an even better deal https://www.planetx.co.uk/brand/q/Pod+Sacs), and it will go pretty small.

 

[Xylophile]

Forgive my ignorance but could I use that as a dry bag? Or would that keep it dry enough to not worry ?

 

[Quixoticgeek]

The whole "Down is bad when wet" idea is these days somewhat out dated. Yes it is true that when wet down doesn't work, but modern sleeping bags tend to me bade with outers that are very water repellent. To put that into perspective, I recently had a night in the bivvi where I was freezing (poor choice of bag, colder than expected), so I deployed a space blanket between my sleeping bag and bivvi bag. I was then toasty warm. The lack of breathability of the space blanket meant that when I woke the sleeping bag had running water on the outside. But, it was on the outside of the bag as the DWR on the outer kept it there. Couple this with modern Hydrophobic down, and the issue becomes substantially less. Sure if you drop your bag in the lake then try to sleep in it, you're not going to have a good night sleep, but it's not something you have to worry as much about as you did 30 years ago.

That said, Down bags *ARE* expensive. In the Long run, Sam Vimes says it will be cheaper. If you have the money up front.

Wiggys bags have been mentioned as a durable option. Do note, they are *HUGE*. Absolutely massive. I didn't go for one as I wouldn't be able to actually fit I in my pack.

I currently use a Mountain Hardware Lamina 35 in summer, and a Laminina 20 in winter. I am saving up for a Phd Down bag.

J

 

[Old Bones]

Forgive my ignorance but could I use that as a dry bag? Or would that keep it dry enough to not worry ?

Although you should get a compression stuff sack with pretty much any bag, some people prefer to use a stuff sack and a spider - possibly a bit more compression (and sometimes a bit easier to use if the sack is a little larger), but no big deal. The only drybag/compression sack I've used had little holes in it, because of the need to sew the webbing onto the fabric of the sack. Which kind of defeated the object of the exercise!

Instead, just put it in its own bag (or get a slightly better one), compress, and then bung it in a drybag. In fact, perhaps double bag it, just to be sure. The Podsac ones are stupidly cheap at the moment, and by the look of those prices they really want to get shot of them, so fill your boots (its £3.29 for postage, plus VAT). I just checked the Podsac Ultralite Spider Compression Sac https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CCPUSCS/pod-ultralite-spider-compsac that I bought from them last year, and although its made from Cordura, does not claim to be waterproof and does not have taped seams, which is fair enough. But since I'd put the whole lot in a drybag anyway, it doesn't matter.

Alpkit https://www.alpkit.com/featured/dry-bags, who also do a good value drybags (the Xtra ones are great), reckon that you might just be able to get their Skyehigh 500 into a 13L drybag, but a 20L is no problem https://www.alpkit.com/support/stickies/which-vortex-airlok-for-my-sleeping-bag-or-down-jacket . So if you take a Rab 500 to be about the same size as the Alpkit one your fine with that size, and the Rab 700 to be about the same size as the Alpkit Skyehigh 700, a 35L bag should be fine. They also sell Vortex mesh storage bags, but a decent down bag should come with one anyway. Their Mission Packs are something I'd recommend - great for sorting out clothes, etc, and my wife keeps 'forgetting' to give them back to me after her overseas trips!

If your not already not confused enough by the whole sleeping bag thing, they also have a good guide.

 

[Wayne]

Remember another word for compressing is crushing. The more you compress the bag the quicker it will lose loft.

Only compress a bag as much as you need to.

I always have mine in a dry bag when travelling. I have lots of dry bags as I canoe.

Store loosely.

 

[Xylophile]

Remember another word for compressing is crushing. The more you compress the bag the quicker it will lose loft.

Only compress a bag as much as you need to.

I always have mine in a dry bag when travelling. I have lots of dry bags as I canoe.

Store loosely.

well as a rule when I strike camp the first thing I do is sort the sleeping systems out first. Tent then mat then bag, so the sleeping bag although will be over compressed by rab's standards it also wont be sitting in its compression sack longer than it needs to be

 

[Xylophile]

Has anyone got any experience of robens? Went to a outdoor shop in Newcastle and tried on on for size the specs all seemed to match. Just it's a brand I've never come across before?

 

[petrochemicals]

Has anyone got any experience of robens? Went to a outdoor shop in Newcastle and tried on on for size the specs all seemed to match. Just it's a brand I've never come across before?

Theyre a medium price down bag, resonable, leak a few feathers, but not many, niceish design and materials, one thing that got me is the internal baffle has to be linked with velcro which can make getting in and out a pig. Its a resonable entry level brand.

. I got reading about hyrophobic down seems to be very good, one thing got me thinking is how long it lasts as a water repelant ?

Most down bags fall into the fill power. The higher the fill power the higher the cost. Robens are a lower fill power, like the lower price RAB bags, the higher you go the higher the cost, and lower the weight.

 

[BillyBlade]

As far as down is concerned, nothing touches it when it gets properly cold and you actually have to carry the thing. For weight and pack size it's still unbeatable and that's before you get to warmth.

I have a Marmot Lithium and in the winter it's just the loveliest thing I've ever bought. I've enjoyed the benefits of it long after I've stopped bothering what I paid for it.

 

[Xylophile]

Had a demonstration of down bags and there compression in the shop. I'm not looking at synthetic anymore. The north face blue kazoo is getting rave reviews also.

The shop also suggested a fleece liner instead of a silk liner. Recons it can add 8c to a bag. Lofty claims but even if it drops it by 4c that'll still be more capability than I can ever use.

 

[BillyBlade]

Fleece liners are great, I've used them before with my summer synthetic bag. I use silk with the down bag though.

 

[Old Bones]

The north face blue kazoo is getting rave reviews also.

There is someone on Outdoor Magic who has the habit of just Googling things like '2 season sleeping bag', and then asking everyone what the ones he's read about are like. The Blue Kazoo was one of them. But although that bag is popular in the States, TNF bags are very difficult to find in the UK (I think that Facewest used do them - who are having a 25% sale on winter clothing, btw). So your chances of trying one out in a store for fit, etc, are very very low.

Try getting the Cotswold catalogue (free with an Explorer card) - you can then sit down with a coffee and see what you get in terms of bulk/weight to temp rating to price. And then narrow it down, because there is simply too much information/choice out there. They don't do all the brands, but somewhere like Outdoor Magic can help with suggestions - there are loads of sleeping bag threads.

Liners are meant to protect the bag against general dirt, etc, but yes, a fleece liner can extend the temp rating (although God knows by what - 8c sounds hell of a lot, and I'm not sure about 4c). But not everyone likes a liner - it can get wrapped up around you, and some people think its like 'sleeping inside a condom' (someone else's phrase!). In fact the bloke who likes Googling suggested a fleece liner that after buying a 2 Season bag which wasn't warm enough (because he'd just thought 'season') - in fact he suggested one of those emergency thermal bag things as well. The common response was 'no', just buy the bag you should brought in the first place.
Best thing - buy a sleeping bag that does the job - it will save money in the long term.

If you want to save some money, then the classifieds on this site and Outdoor magic can turn up some good stuff, and there is the fabled Rab factory shop http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/forum/gear/rab-outlet-in-derby/52907.html . I've never been, but its at least worth a try if your in the area, and that goes for Alpkit's shop as well - you might get a good deal on a 2nd, and if not, you can at least try their bags for size.

I have a Marmot Lithium and in the winter it's just the loveliest thing I've ever bought. I've enjoyed the benefits of it long after I've stopped bothering what I paid for it.

850 fill power! Wow! And yeah - cheap isn't cheap, expensive isn't expensive.

 

[Lithril]

I'm another one for down, to be honest I've not seen a synthetic that comes close in terms of weight to warmth ratio. My wife and I have both got PHD bags (bought on their sales) and they really are excellent but then they're also seriously pricey for their top end bags.

 

[Xylophile]

The PhD bags look fantastic and I love the fact they are fully bespoke. I just don't have that type of cash. I also want to apologise if people are finding this boring

 

[sunndog]

I also want to apologise if people are finding this boring

Worry not fella, talking about kit we don't need or cant affort accounts for half the posts on the forum