xylaria
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Well i for one is sick to death of malcious rude behaviour and bullying been viewed as entertainment. It is no wonder some teenagers act the way they do.
The NURSE who took the 'duchess' prank call found dead.
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Reread the thread and i can't see anything that would be offensive or disturbing Richard.
I don't think anyone here is saying "poor DJ's", just that their level of responsibility is being somewhat extorted by the usual public knee jerk reaction, a reaction that's being extorted by the media in their usual method of selling ad space and papers.
Once emotions start coming into opinions it starts to get very cloudy, better to let some time pass and have a independent review to the exact causes.
As we are now though we can only guess and jump to assumptions, like there should have been security nets in place at the hospital for this sort of thing.
Either there wasn't, the staff were not trained correctly or the nurses completely ignored all protocols.
Yes the DJ's were absolute knobs with extremely poor judgement and a terrible sense of humour, but there should have been protocols in place to stop this kind of thing.
The suicide was tragic just like every other of the thousands suicides daily, but they are the result of a action taken by a person who has made that decision to end their life.
No doubt we as a society fail each time someone takes their own life, we've failed in not spotting any symptoms, we've failed in not being in a position to offer that person an alternative and we've failed to get them to proper psychiatric help to prevent it.
But it's still down to them making that choice, or should i say feeling they have no they choice.
There is a legal precedent for cases where some ones action drove a person to suicide, no idea if that's the case in Aus though, i guess the courts will see if it's possible to press charges.
From a legal standpoint though they are extremely clinical in their judgements, percentages of blame will be set, and i believe a fair portion of that blame should be levelled at the radio station, i also believe a large percentage of that blame must fall into the hands of the hospital
We will see i guess.
I don't think anyone here is saying "poor DJ's", just that their level of responsibility is being somewhat extorted by the usual public knee jerk reaction, a reaction that's being extorted by the media in their usual method of selling ad space and papers.
Once emotions start coming into opinions it starts to get very cloudy, better to let some time pass and have a independent review to the exact causes.
As we are now though we can only guess and jump to assumptions, like there should have been security nets in place at the hospital for this sort of thing.
Either there wasn't, the staff were not trained correctly or the nurses completely ignored all protocols.
Yes the DJ's were absolute knobs with extremely poor judgement and a terrible sense of humour, but there should have been protocols in place to stop this kind of thing.
The suicide was tragic just like every other of the thousands suicides daily, but they are the result of a action taken by a person who has made that decision to end their life.
No doubt we as a society fail each time someone takes their own life, we've failed in not spotting any symptoms, we've failed in not being in a position to offer that person an alternative and we've failed to get them to proper psychiatric help to prevent it.
But it's still down to them making that choice, or should i say feeling they have no they choice.
There is a legal precedent for cases where some ones action drove a person to suicide, no idea if that's the case in Aus though, i guess the courts will see if it's possible to press charges.
From a legal standpoint though they are extremely clinical in their judgements, percentages of blame will be set, and i believe a fair portion of that blame should be levelled at the radio station, i also believe a large percentage of that blame must fall into the hands of the hospital
We will see i guess.
As I said before, doubtless they didn't intend a death. However neither does a drunk driver. Both are thoughtless, nasty, reckless and antisocial.
I see that as a pretty direct parallel. If someone causes death by being stupid and thoughtless there is normally a legal consequence - whether by speeding, drunkeness, inciting hatred or many other ways that someones crass irresponsibility has "unforseen" outcomes.
Given that bullying has, as you said, led to suicides before, given this radio station has been admonished and had its license amended on more than one occasion for the outcomes of its outrageous behaviour, I believe that it is right and proper that a proportional signal be sent. Poportional to me would be a sentence for all the involved (CEO, presenters etc.) for corporate manslaughter, and the revocation of the stations licence.
We have to stop excusing nasty, petty bullies in this life and hold them accountable for their actions.
I see that as a pretty direct parallel. If someone causes death by being stupid and thoughtless there is normally a legal consequence - whether by speeding, drunkeness, inciting hatred or many other ways that someones crass irresponsibility has "unforseen" outcomes.
Given that bullying has, as you said, led to suicides before, given this radio station has been admonished and had its license amended on more than one occasion for the outcomes of its outrageous behaviour, I believe that it is right and proper that a proportional signal be sent. Poportional to me would be a sentence for all the involved (CEO, presenters etc.) for corporate manslaughter, and the revocation of the stations licence.
We have to stop excusing nasty, petty bullies in this life and hold them accountable for their actions.
robin wood
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Suicide is sometimes the result of mental instability it is sometimes seen as the only way out by someone who feels to be under unbearable pressure such as the 300,000 Indian farmers that have committed suicide since 1995 after being driven into insurmountable debt following the conquest of Indian farmland by Monsanto's Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) cotton.
[video=vimeo;50050875]http://vimeo.com/50050875[/video]
[video=vimeo;50050875]http://vimeo.com/50050875[/video]
robin wood
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
I don't think it this broadcast was a direct parallel to drink driving or bullying but lets go along with you and say it is. Funny thing is when a bully appears in the playground and gets caught at it there is normally a bigger bully there saying "let's smack the bully". Most of the work I have read on bullying suggests that is the perfect way to continue the loop.
I wouldn't put it in anywhere near the same category as drink drivers.
If you drink and drive you KNOW 100% that what your doing is morally and legally wrong and that if you are caught will face legal consequences.
This radio station obviously had moral doubts as from your previous post you pointed out they had sat down with the stations lawyers.
I think it's a stretch for anyone to say that they knew from the start their actions would result in the death of anyone.
So when they say for that nanosecond and thought things through they were not willingly intending to break the law like say a drunk driver.
You also have to consider that poor humour or not thousands if not millions of prank calls are made every year, it's only because this was the royal family that it made the news, the chances of someone committing suicide as a direct result of a prank call is extremely small.
The chances of a drunk driver killing someone is extremely high.
So i do agree they should have been reigned in by the radio station and their good taste compass should have been pointing them the right way, but the suicide was a freak and extreme reaction to what many of us would just brush off.
The radio station including the DJ's SHOULD in my opinion face consequences as their judgement was obviously wrong.
Even if the woman hadn't committed suicide they should have realised that their actions would have resulted in at least one person loosing their job.
So either they didn't think, or thought and didn't care about the consequences which they should be punished for IMO.
No-one is suggesting they should be "smacked" however Robin. They should however face proportional legal sanction for their unprovoked act that had the intent to hold people up to public humiliation for being "duped" and the consequences that came with it.
Does the work you read on bullying suggest that letting bullies get away with it is a good idea? Because if it does, I suggest you find some better reading material. The most important people to consider in bullying are the victims. If that means excluding bullies from school - fine. If it means excluding this pair from the airwaves - fine. That has to be better than a repeat of this incident - it is also important that this kind of bullying not only has adverse consequences for the bully - but is seen to have them by their professional peers.
Does the work you read on bullying suggest that letting bullies get away with it is a good idea? Because if it does, I suggest you find some better reading material. The most important people to consider in bullying are the victims. If that means excluding bullies from school - fine. If it means excluding this pair from the airwaves - fine. That has to be better than a repeat of this incident - it is also important that this kind of bullying not only has adverse consequences for the bully - but is seen to have them by their professional peers.
In some parts of the world if you are seen as dishonoured yourself or your family then an "Honour killing" often takes place, we read and hear about it a lot in the UK media, maybe the nurse felt she had "dishonoured" and the actions that followed were as a result of that.
That is my point in a nutshell. There are many laws which this pair could be said to have violated - the Data Protection Act, and section 4A of the Public Ordr Act for a start. I see no reason at all why they should not be extradited and stand trial for them.
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So what abaht the suicide bombers that kill my kin folk ? Or is there some difference between their ideals of suicide and martyerdom ?
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I think it's time to draw a quiet line under this.
While there are many excellent and informative posts on the thread, some of it is so conflating that it's verging on the witch hunt.
We can all be thoughtless and foolish; most of us are grown up enough to feel genuine remorse and are determined to think twice if the situation ever arose again. Whatever the rights or wrongs of their behaviour I sincerely doubt that anyone at the radio station even considered the fallout that they will have to deal with over this 'prank"
The end result is that a nurse who has obviously been held in esteem by her colleagues, and whose too early death is a heart felt grief for her family and friends, is no longer with us to explain why she appears to have felt that this was her only recourse.
Two young radio 'personalities' will have to carry this whole event on their consciences, and their reputations, for the rest of their lives; and the Duchess of Cambridge is again ill, while still in the first trimester, with the child that might one day be our King or Queen.
'No stress', is one of the usual pieces of advice given to young mothers suffering like this.
Maybe this time she'll be left in peace to recover.
There are no winners in this, and no amount of money or compensation will bring the nurse back to her family.
If the whole sorry state of affairs makes people think more of how their behaviour acts on others though, maybe no one else will suffer.
My pm box is full over this one folks; it's emotive, and I think tbh, we've said all that we need.
Our deepest sympathies to the family of Mrs Jacintha Saldanha.
Toddy
While there are many excellent and informative posts on the thread, some of it is so conflating that it's verging on the witch hunt.
We can all be thoughtless and foolish; most of us are grown up enough to feel genuine remorse and are determined to think twice if the situation ever arose again. Whatever the rights or wrongs of their behaviour I sincerely doubt that anyone at the radio station even considered the fallout that they will have to deal with over this 'prank"
The end result is that a nurse who has obviously been held in esteem by her colleagues, and whose too early death is a heart felt grief for her family and friends, is no longer with us to explain why she appears to have felt that this was her only recourse.
Two young radio 'personalities' will have to carry this whole event on their consciences, and their reputations, for the rest of their lives; and the Duchess of Cambridge is again ill, while still in the first trimester, with the child that might one day be our King or Queen.
'No stress', is one of the usual pieces of advice given to young mothers suffering like this.
Maybe this time she'll be left in peace to recover.
There are no winners in this, and no amount of money or compensation will bring the nurse back to her family.
If the whole sorry state of affairs makes people think more of how their behaviour acts on others though, maybe no one else will suffer.
My pm box is full over this one folks; it's emotive, and I think tbh, we've said all that we need.
Our deepest sympathies to the family of Mrs Jacintha Saldanha.
Toddy
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