The NURSE who took the 'duchess' prank call found dead.

[rik_uk3]

Over here they're not even allowed to confirm that a person is even IN said hospital except to IMMEDIATE family members without the consent of the patient (or guardian) Not over the phone or in person. As the grandmother, even the Queen wouldn't qualify.

That said, I don't know how a caller would be verified to be a legitamate immediate family member.

Unintended consequences of the privacy aspect of the law is that hospitals are abandonning wards an semi-private rooms in favor of totally private patiant rooms. No other setting allows the doctor to discuss condition and treatment with the patient and still afford the privacy required by law.

Technically we're not supposed to give out any information to anyone without patient consent, depending upon circumstances we issue a password out which needs to be given over the phone, useful when family/loved ones live a long way off and cannot visit daily. All new hospitals are moving away from wards to rooms, great in theory but in terms of patient observation it can be a nightmare. The stupid part is, most patients, certainly who will be there a week or two like a ward where they can chat with other people rather than be stuck in a room watching Judge Judy or CSE New York all day.

 

[xylaria]

I have listened to the phone call [it is on youtube], the nurses that handled the call made a judgement error, but she gave out nothing that wasn't public domain. It had that professional vagueness nurses have when discussing a patient with relatives. It was 5.30am, judgement errors happen, especially if your first language isnt english you arent going to pick up off accents.

Doing prank calls to members of the public in view to humuliate them or to break professional standards is abusive, and shouldnt be enterainment. Pranks calls only work as comedy if the pranker is one the doing the idoit. Example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=uMhMA8GlPUw

 

[robin wood]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=uMhMA8GlPUw

That was indeed fantastic

 

[BOD]

Ah Robin of course they are not legally culpable and it was not foreseeable that she would commit suicide (if this is the case) but it is foreseeable that there may be disciplinary action by an employer so they are morally culpable.

There is also a difference between a one-time prank call by a spontaneous prankster and the actions of individuals (and their employers) paid to entertain by hosting shows of this nature and, it seems, with a history of doing so.

The former can be pardoned but it is harder to accept the latter especially when the consequences could lead to fears for a persons job, public ridicule or shame.

So if now they are "mentally fragile" as a consequence of their own actions (and not as a result of retribution by others) and feel a measure of the anguish that Jacintha Saldanha must have felt then a certain cosmic justice is taking place.

Coming from Oz where a lot of our "humour" is based on destructive sarcasm, jibes and picking on the weak, I just hope that it helps us clean up our act on the airwaves.

 

[British Red]

Are you judging the original actions fairly? or has the extremely unfortunate outcome changed all your opinions? My thoughts are with the nurse and her family but also with the DJs and their family and friends. I do believe they are real people with feelings and I have no doubt they feel far worse than most of us do about the tragic outcome of their actions. Have none of us ever made a mistake that has had disproportionatley bad outcomes?

I am with boatman

Yes I believe so as I wrote in my original post

Even without this tragic outcome, the very best case was invasion of privacy of a new mother at risk of losing her baby and the public humiliation of under valued staff.

This type of activity isn't a "joke" it is bullying at best - humiliating and hurting people for fleeting entertainment- to me its pyschological bear baiting - causing pain for entertainment of mean spirited shallow people.

This station has a history of such acts and has been repeatedly sanctioned for it

It isn't the first time that a vistim of bullying has been pushed over the edge - and it sadly may not be the last.

To say that the outcome could not be forseen is obfuscation - the intention was to belittle , invade privacy and humiliate. The intention may not have been to drive someone over the edge - but the intention of a drunk driver is not to kill - that does not remove the culpability for knowingly behaving irresponsibly and that the consequence of such actions is the death of an innocent party.

 

[robin wood]

There is also a difference between a one-time prank call by a spontaneous prankster and the actions of individuals (and their employers) paid to entertain by hosting shows of this nature and, it seems, with a history of doing so.

So if now they are "mentally fragile" as a consequence of their own actions (and not as a result of retribution by others) and feel a measure of the anguish that Jacintha Saldanha must have felt then a certain cosmic justice is taking place.

This is all very fair. I am not defending the original action I feel that the outcomes have been the result of two things first the world wide press coverage, front page news around the world of the call and then second some days later world wide vitriol through social media as a result of the sad death. Personally I think trial by the gutter press (including gutter radio) is bad enough but trial by facebook/twitter is as bad as it gets. I am sure they are feeling exactly the anguish Jacintha Saldanha felt when the call was on the front of the tabloids, if you believe in an eye for an eye that would be a good thing. I don't.

 

[Rod Paradise]

This is all very fair. I am not defending the original action I feel that the outcomes have been the result of two things first the world wide press coverage, front page news around the world of the call and then second some days later world wide vitriol through social media as a result of the sad death. Personally I think trial by the gutter press (including gutter radio) is bad enough but trial by facebook/twitter is as bad as it gets. I am sure they are feeling exactly the anguish Jacintha Saldanha felt when the call was on the front of the tabloids, if you believe in an eye for an eye that would be a good thing. I don't.

The gutter press do FAR worse than the pranksters did, now in saying that I don't consider falling for a fake accent something that any balanced person would feel belittled or humiliated by. And I don't get how the pranksters invaded her privacy - I'd say that was the press. It's a crying shame that someone has taken their life over a silly prank, but when I hear people like Alan Sugar (who was a well paid position where he publicly humiliates people) call for prosecution I think we need to back up the lynch mob bus. Are we saying that practical jokes (funny or unfunny) carry the risk of prosecution because the victim takes it badly? Did I risk getting done if the idiot I made move out of my seat at the football takes the argument badly & tops himself? THe actions of a couple of clowns are being retrospectively judged unfairly.

 

[santaman2000]

The gutter press do FAR worse than the pranksters did, now in saying that I don't consider falling for a fake accent something that any balanced person would feel belittled or humiliated by. And I don't get how the pranksters invaded her privacy....

They didn't invade the nurse's privacy; they invaded the patient's privacy by getting her medical information.

 

[Rod Paradise]

They didn't invade the nurse's privacy; they invaded the patient's privacy by getting her medical information.

Aye, and got a generic answer - not exactly a drastic invasion. Still difficult to see blaming the DJ's for the suicide.

 

[santaman2000]

Aye, and got a generic answer - not exactly a drastic invasion......

depends on the legal standards. Rik-UK would know more about UK medical privacy standards than I would. The satandard answer over here (unless the patient or guardian had given prior consent) would be, "We cain't give out ANY information about patients; not even whether a person is one of our patients or not."

 

[cbr6fs]

I wonder, how many have actually listened to the call?

Might be worth 3mins 44 secs of time for someone to listen before forming an opinion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MjPPMLlZqo
My view is this.

Calling a pregnant woman who is experiencing problems, at 5 in the morning = stupid and irresponsible
I mean what would they have done if they had got through, huhhhh hello and get well soon

Prank calls = Not really appealing to my sense of humour
Commuting suicide because you fell for a prank call = ridiculous

The DJ's are guilty of stupidity (calling at 5 am) and bad taste (for thinking it might be funny), but the hospital administrators are the ones i put most at fault because:
a/ They should have security procedures in place and EVERYONE from the nurses to the cleaning staff should be FULLY aware
b/ The staff should have been vetted for mental stability, not only from a security point but also because nursing is an extremely emotionally taxing job.

I wouldn't fire the DJ's because of this prank call, i'd fire them for not being funny, but then if the audience enjoy them and find this sort of thing funny maybe that shines a light more on us as a society in general.

 

[WoodMan]

Obviously all aspects of this story are very regrettable.

Whilst the Hospital have stated that they weretaking no action against the nurses involved I wonder if their colleagues were quite as gentle? Peer pressure can be extreme and I suspect that they may have taken a fair amount of flak in the canteen.

Anyone seen or read 'An Inspector calls'?

 

[wingstoo]

Perhaps the nurse who has killed herself felt she had dishonoured her position, her faith/religeon/belief may be so strong that to have done this she felt there was only one way to redeem herself.

Who knows what was going through her mind after all the publicity this evoked.

 

[cbr6fs]

Obviously all aspects of this story are very regrettable.

Whilst the Hospital have stated that they weretaking no action against the nurses involved I wonder if their colleagues were quite as gentle? Peer pressure can be extreme and I suspect that they may have taken a fair amount of flak in the canteen.

Anyone seen or read 'An Inspector calls'?

As the public outcry wasn't really aimed to strongly at the staff involved and even then the majority of which was aimed at the nurse that divulged the majority of the details NOT the woman who picked up the phone (who then committed suicide), to read between the lines she was either extremely mentally unstable or she was getting grief from her workmates.

Either way the hospital IMO is more responsible than the radio show.
I say radio show as the stunt is not something that's done on a whim, it will have been planned and cleared long before it was implemented, so the shows producer is as much responsible if not more than the DJ's.


Anyone remember that Canadian DJ that spoke with the queen many years ago after he told her staff he was the Canadian PM?
Wasn't much outcry of bad humour then if i remember rightly.

The ironic thing in this case is, the DJ's were planning on that being found out was to be the humour in the situation.
I can't believe that they would have willingly called and disturbed a very ill pregnant woman from her bed at 5 in the morning.


Very odd turn of events, but i don't know if anyone can be held 100% responsible for a persons suicide other than the person themselves, it was after all 100% their choice to end their life.

 

[cbr6fs]

Perhaps the nurse who has killed herself felt she had dishonoured her position, her faith/religeon/belief may be so strong that to have done this she felt there was only one way to redeem herself.

Who knows what was going through her mind after all the publicity this evoked.

What faith/religion was she?

Both Christianity and Muslim faiths are pretty strong against suicide.

As with everything in most religions a lot is open to interpretation, but in Christianity for many years it was forbidden for a suicide victim to be burred in consecrated grounds, many priests interpreting the readings even stronger and refusing to give the deceased a holy burial.

In Islam it's considered one of the greatest sins.

So unless she was some obscure religion i don't think it would be a regional or religious based decision.

 

[santaman2000]

As the public outcry wasn't really aimed to strongly at the staff involved and even then the majority of which was aimed at the nurse that divulged the majority of the details NOT the woman who picked up the phone (who then committed suicide), to read between the lines she was either extremely mentally unstable or she was getting grief from her workmates....

Getting grief from her workmates. Maybe but it doesn't seem to likely as I suspect most of them would have passed the call on to a superior as it appears she did. Perhaps a bit of resentment from the one she passed it to? In any case it's unfair to say she was unstable at this point.

Further investigation may well reveal that she was but as yet we don't know. Lets also not forget that she was raised in an entirely different culture and it seems unfair to judge her reactions according to how we might react in a similar situation. The article also states that she was popular among the other staff and patients.

 

[santaman2000]

What faith/religion was she?

Both Christianity and Muslim faiths are pretty strong against suicide....

As the article says she was from India I think it more likely she was Hindu rather than Christian or muslim.

 

[santaman2000]

.....I say radio show as the stunt is not something that's done on a whim, it will have been planned and cleared long before it was implemented, so the shows producer is as much responsible if not more than the DJ's....

No not really. At least not the bit about pre-planning. These type things are usually done on a whim as the shows are completely ad libbed. However I agree that the station and the show's producers knew (or should have known) the DJs' style and history and do indeed share in the responsibility.

 

[rik_uk3]

Bearing in mind this is an 'open' forum on the internet and her family may read peoples conjecture here, perhaps its best if we all just thought about what we are posting and how it looks to others perhaps new to BCUK and have arrived here via a Google search.

 

[British Red]

In this case the producers had listened to the pre-recorded malicious call (I won't dignify it with the term "prank") as had two of their lawyers. The mere fact that they had their lawyers vet it signifies that they knew they were on dodgy ground. These are the same people who put a 14 year old girl on a lie detector, on air, to get her to admit to being raped.

I simply do not buy into the "oh poor DJs it was just a joke". If it was just a joke, why have your lawyers review it? They knew it was malicious and possibly illegal. They have also been admoinished, more than once, for their vile and tasteless practicices.

I have no sympathy at all for the active participants or the corporate enablers. Nasty minded individuals, bullies and muck rakers. If they are subject to public outrage they have brought it on themselves.

The worst? The CEO who pays for such behaviour - that has previously resulted in traumatised crime victims. He canot pretend he did not know it could go wrong - it has before on his stations.