The End of Internet Knife Sales. Law change could target one-hand opening folders

[C_Claycomb]

Has everyone managed to fill in the consultation? The online part isn't all that hard, and you don't have to write War and Peace, as I did.

 

[Tony]

I filled it in, didn't take long although some of the wording was a bit hard to work through. I wonder if it will make any difference in the end... Worth a try though

 

[John Fenna]

I did the consultation and wrote to my MP.
I had back a very fulsome reply saying that he would raise my points when the discussion was on the go in parliament.
Our MP, though Conservative and having had his wrist slapped for a bit of extra marital fun, seems to listen to his electorate ...

 

[Kepis]

I did the consultation and wrote to my MP.
I had back a very fulsome reply saying that he would raise my points when the discussion was on the go in parliament.
Our MP, though Conservative and having had his wrist slapped for a bit of extra marital fun, seems to listen to his electorate ...

Glad your MP is a goodun John, ours is as much use as a chocolate teapot as can be seen from his copy and paste reply of party policy in response to my letter to him, i posted it a while back in this thread, you would think he would be be a little more forthcoming to the electorate, especially considering his seat following the last election is now a marginal one and no longer a safe Tory as it has been for decades and he represents a rural/semi rural constituency where these proposals could have far reaching effects.

 

[Kepis]

Has everyone managed to fill in the consultation? The online part isn't all that hard, and you don't have to write War and Peace, as I did.

Filled in the consultation, wrote to my MP, wrote to a neighbouring MP as my MP is useless, wrote to the Home Sec and emailed my letter to the email address on the consultation.

 

[Samon]

Any news?

 

[Snufkin]

Wrote to my MP who forwarded on my email to the home sec, where it clearly wasn't read judging from the reply I got from them. This is obviously a done deal judging from the heavily weighted questions in the consultation.

 

[John Fenna]

My MP wrote in for me too - the answer I got was fairly encouraging on the matter of the knife opening thing - only "Automatic" openers being looked at - but not so good on internet sales.
I am glad to say that my MP actually seemed interested ... I wrote to him once - he writes me a good letter back and sends the questions up the chain and I get a swift reply ... an MP that actually seems to be listening to the folk that voted for him!!!!!!

 

[Corso]

with the very slim majority the government has it will come down to three things

1) potential revenue loss
2) other legislative issues during parliament (mainly brexit)
3) whether the opposition want the legislative change or want to score points against an ineffective government

I can see the corrosive substances passing - since a lot of the high-street chains are accepting a voluntary ban its an easy win, the police being given the right to remove weapons (probably under court order) from known criminals and some sort of advanced ID checking process for online sales rather than an all out ban, there will probably be a charge for this through the delivery service - I can't see how they can get round the disability act banning delivery or legal items

 

[hog]

There is never any good news about knife laws/sales/carry anymore.

 

[Fadcode]

Quite a bit on TV about knife crime today, seems the legislation is getting ready to go through, even had a policeman looking under bushes in London, and lo and behold he comes out with a kitchen knife, one smart coppa

 

[santaman2000]

Quite a bit on TV about knife crime today, seems the legislation is getting ready to go through...

Maybe banning TV would help?

 

[Janne]

Quite a bit on TV about knife crime today, seems the legislation is getting ready to go through, even had a policeman looking under bushes in London, and lo and behold he comes out with a kitchen knife, one smart coppa

Maybe a ban on kitchen knives is next?
Sponsored by the Takaway Associaton of UK...

 

[C_Claycomb]

There has just been an article on BBC about knife crime, showing statistics.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42749089
Statistics can be viewed many ways, and while these show that pointy things are by far the most common weapon used these days, they also showed that they were used in just 6% of all violent attacks (77% no weapons at all), that London has twice as many knife crime incidence per-capita than the next nearest runner up, and that the rise in the last few years, despite ever increasingly harsh sentencing, corresponds with a reduction in stop and search.

Anyway. In other news.
Canada has just recently told its border control that flipper folders are illegal weapons.
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/cn-ad/cn18-01-eng.html
https://edgematters.uk/thread/17722...-uk-over-most-ridiculous-knife-laws/?pageNo=1

And, it appears that UK border force is getting up to speed again with seizing knives and worse.
https://edgematters.uk/thread/17936-sales-threads-item-location-must-be-included/

With immediate effect, all sales threads must have location of buyer / item.

Reason :
It's come to our attention recently that our much admired United Kingdom Border Force Detection Unit are now actively intercepting & seizing legal to own & purchase knives sent from inside the European Union to the United Kingdom. This practice had previously been adopted by UKBF for knives imported into U.K. from outside the European Union resulting in many retailers & private sellers refusing to ship to U.K.

2017 saw a policy change by Netherlands based supplier "Knives & Tools.co.uk" who now refuse to sell & ship legal to purchase & own folding locking knives with finger guards sometimes referred to as "flipper" or deployment tabs to U.K. The UKBF Detection Unit have seized numerous knives illegally & classed them incorrectly as Gravity knife or switchblade ( Flick) knife under old laws passed in 1953 & 1959 & subsequently seized as prohibited weapons. However, any folding locking knife that may deploy from closed to open with the flick of wrist or use of other item attached to blade may also be subject to seizure.

In addition to the above action & "seizure of goods notification" letter sent to the personal importers home or business address, Since 2014, the most disgusting behaviour is now being implemented by the UKBF Detection Unit on an increasingly regular basis, where the agency (allegedly acting upon direction from the Home Office) are instructing Police Officers local to the importer of the knife to be visited at home or work & questioned about the importation of a knife. This has now gone one step further where we are now informed that Importers of a legal to purchase & own knife are being requested to attend Police stations & questioned under caution with what appears to be no legal justification.

Due to the above, we feel that buyers & sellers need to be open & transparent from the start, where sellers & their items are located & that sellers outside the U.K. be aware of the risks of shipping knives here. It's the responsibility of the buyer to assess the risk of importation. If goods are seized upon importation into the U.K, any insurances against loss or damage are void. The seller of the knife can not be held responsible for sending you the knife.

I will clarify that in the cases we are aware of, the buyer & the seller did nothing illegal. Proving that the "United Kingdom Border Force Detection Unit" seizure actions are illegal requires them to be challenged in court & ordered to return illegally seized items. This is risky & potentially costly.

Magistrates are not knife law specialists They could rule against you. There's no case law definition. Even if you win the court case, there's no law stopping the Agency doing exactly the same thing again the next day.


With regret.

EM Team.

 

[daveO]

I had a multitool delivered today from Amazon and it was preceded by an email telling me that it would only be handed to an adult and ID might be asked for. They didn't ask for ID in the end but that may be because I'm clearly over 18. They didn't say what would happen if no one was in to take delivery and no age checks were made at point of sale. Given the hype over internet sales recently I was expecting to have more trouble.

 

[OrtesPL]

I have bought a folding saw last week and received a text message that i have failed and age check so in order to proceed with my order I have to provide an ID scan.

No other issues with a purchase. Saw has been in my letterbox without any further checks.

Just FYI.

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk

 

[Nice65]

I had a multitool delivered today from Amazon and it was preceded by an email telling me that it would only be handed to an adult and ID might be asked for. They didn't ask for ID in the end but that may be because I'm clearly over 18. They didn't say what would happen if no one was in to take delivery and no age checks were made at point of sale. Given the hype over internet sales recently I was expecting to have more trouble.

I'd like to know whether the delivery person was aware they had to actually check or whether it's Amazon trying to be seen as being conscientious, which they're not exactly renowned for. If a system of checking has been integrated, surely the delivery driver must be able to prove he delivered the Amazon parcel legally, just as Amazon must be able to prove it if that wasn't the case?

So, the poor underpaid delivery driver is deemed responsible to ask for and check legal documents? Have Amazon trained them, given them legal powers to demand proof of age?

 

[Fadcode]

The one thing to note here is that Amazon say it has to be signed for by an adult, not neccessarily the person who has purchased the knife,as it is quite normal for a parcel to be signed for it is possible the adult who signs for it is unaware it is actually a knife, possibly bought by one of his/her children. As Amazon does not stipulate the purchaser has to prove they are over 18, so they are just trying to show they are being conscientous, though in my opinion they have not given it much thought.

 

[Nice65]

The one thing to note here is that Amazon say it has to be signed for by an adult, not neccessarily the person who has purchased the knife,as it is quite normal for a parcel to be signed for it is possible the adult who signs for it is unaware it is actually a knife, possibly bought by one of his/her children. As Amazon does not stipulate the purchaser has to prove they are over 18, so they are just trying to show they are being conscientous, though in my opinion they have not given it much thought.

Amazon do have to be able to prove the purchaser is over 18 whether they stipulate it or not, it's the law.

 

[Fadcode]

Copied from Amazon regarding Age prohibited Items

About Age Restrictions

Certain items available on Amazon.co.uk are age restricted.


By placing an order for one of these items you are declaring that you are 18 years of age or over. These items must be used responsibly and appropriately.


Delivery of age restricted items will require the signature of the recipient at the delivery address. Identification may be required in order to verify the age of the recipient. Delivery to a nominated neighbour or safe location isn't available for these items.

As they will deliver the package as long as it is signed for by an adult, they are not really checking the age of the purchaser, just ensuring whoever signs for it ( the recipient)is over 18.