The Covid19 Thread

Broch

Life Member
Jan 18, 2009
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www.mont-hmg.co.uk
Except, when do you know you've got it? Do you know you are not infected right now?

As I've said before, we live in the middle of nowhere. It's probably been over 5 days since I last got as close as 2m to anyone :) (except the missus of course) so I think I can be very confident of not currently carrying the infection. Anyway, that doesn't change the logic of my proposal; if I sought to get it I would know when I became potentially infectious.

I caught swine flu in 2009 (I know it's not the same) but what was interesting was that the three people sharing the holiday cottage with me didn't catch it! Three days in bed with 39deg temp and painful headaches followed by a week of feeling shattered.
 

Navaja

Tenderfoot
Apr 1, 2016
55
28
Spain/UK
Broch, you sound like you are in the absolute perfect position to avoid getting infected so I' m not sure I understand your original idea.
The best thing you can do is not get it, if you do get it get it after the panic is over & the services will be in a much better position to help you & will know more about it.

Ultimately of course it's your choice, "do you feel lucky"? What's the worst that can happen. ;)
 

Broch

Life Member
Jan 18, 2009
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www.mont-hmg.co.uk
The only reason I suggested it may be better for me to get it now (before the rush) was so that I would be in a position to support my family (including three grandchildren) when they've all got it later. Judging by what is being said, the most likely scenario is that the grandchildren may not be very ill at all, in which case they will probably be staying with us whilst their parents recover.

Anyway, these were only musings - thanks for all your feedback :)
 

Tengu

Full Member
Jan 10, 2006
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Thank you Woody, we really needed to see that.

Dad is not at all interested in my food advice so I am giving upon that.

His position is problematic; He is nearly 83 and has diabetes, yet he is still healthy (and I suspect, young).

So I imagine that in triage he would come into the `Too bad` group.

But I think he has a lot of life in him. Hes not like his sister who is old and ill and really its just a matter of time...(Or my mother and his other wife who were both young and ill with rackety lungs...Both long gone).

Luckily he is sensible.

(But he wont buy food in tins that he cant use up all at once. Hence the desire for small (and expensive) products. I told him that putting the rest in a tub in the fridge is harmless but he wont listen)
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
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As far as I can tell it's only given to people at high risk in the UK - and anyway, I don't carry Tamaflu in my medkit :)
Yeah, it’s by Rx only here so nobody really carries it here either. However it’s the standard first line choice for treatment here so prescriptions are common.
 

TeeDee

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Nov 6, 2008
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Pretty much sure even if we can avoid the Corona Virus itself ( we won't long term.) that the immediate hit on the global economy is going to be pretty significant in itself with its own set of lingering issu
 
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SaraR

Full Member
Mar 25, 2017
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Ceredigion
Has anyone said that you can only get it once
It's unlikely, I think. If we're lucky it's similar to the flu in that you will develop immunity that lasts a few--several years, or that an effective (seasonal?) vaccine can me developed for it. If we're unlucky, it will be similar to the cornaviruses causing the common cold, where immunity only lasts 3 months or so.

The thought of this becoming a seasonal occurrence is quite scary.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
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It's unlikely, I think. If we're lucky it's similar to the flu in that you will develop immunity that lasts a few--several years, or that an effective (seasonal?) vaccine can me developed for it. If we're unlucky, it will be similar to the cornaviruses causing the common cold, where immunity only lasts 3 months or so.

The thought of this becoming a seasonal occurrence is quite scary.
Flu can be gotten repeatedly. Maybe not the same strain (I’m not sure about that) but it mutates I to several new strains every year.
 

SaraR

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Mar 25, 2017
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Ceredigion
Flu can be gotten repeatedly. Maybe not the same strain (I’m not sure about that) but it mutates I to several new strains every year.
Yes. If you get the flu you tend to develop immunity that last a couple of years, until the flu has changed enough for you to get it again. If you get the flu vaccine, that normally only lasts that year but obviously you won't get ill. As long as the one you encounter is one of the strains, usually three, that have been picked as likely candidates and included in that year's vaccine.
 
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Navaja

Tenderfoot
Apr 1, 2016
55
28
Spain/UK
It's quite likely it will become an annual threat the same as Flu, but by then we will have inoculations & vaccines the same as Flu, so risk will probably also be the same as Flu......maybe.
Apparently about a year is needed to develop & test vaccines.
 
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Tengu

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I saw this today.

Olle Karlström, investigator at the Swedish Medical Products Agency and Infection Doctor at Karolinska Hospital (the leading Medical research hospital in Sweden), gives us a snapshot of the Corona virus and how we should think together to help prevent the spread of infection.

He writes: The disease symptoms are mild to the absolute majority. The fact that the spread of SARS-CoV-2 goes so fast means that the majority of those infected should have mild symptoms, and now we know that is the case. The figures on the "number of infected" and the number of deaths reported daily on the news are very misleading. In Wuhan, where it all started, it can be assumed that a very large part of the population (11 million) is infected, not 80,000 as stated in news; only those with more severe symptoms have been tested. Maybe 3-4 million have been infected there, rather. On the other hand, the number of deceased people is quite accurate.

Wuhan is a densely populated metropolis, and my impression is that generational living is common in China i.e. Grandmother/Grandfather lives with children and grandchildren. An effective way for rapid dissemination to the risk groups, ie the elderly.

This is confirmed by what we have seen so far at Karolinska Hospital, where I work at the infection clinic half my working time. Initially, people with respiratory symptoms who came home from risk areas (especially Italy) were invited to test themselves. Of the approximately 250 people who have tested positive, almost all have had common cold symptoms, or symptoms of mild flu. Of these, virtually none have had to be admitted for medical reasons in connection with testing, and of those sent home for quarantine, virtually no one has had to seek care later because of more severe symptoms.

Our Swedish data taken from Ground Zero shows that the disease symptoms are very mild for the absolute majority. The vast majority of those who have suffered from severe illness, and have died, in China and Italy, are old (80+) and usually have some underlying medical problems.

It is therefore important to understand that in the coming year a large proportion of the Swedish population will have received the infection, most without having labeled it nothing other than as a common cold. There is no way to prevent this. A small proportion will have severe illness, and by and large it will be for the elderly and the sick. Children have not been affected by severe illness, although they have certainly become highly infected abroad in China and Italy.

Stay home if you're sick. All the calls and measures that are being made now have a single purpose: to make the spread (which will happen) go at a slower pace so that the small proportion of people who become seriously ill can be cared for in a good way in health care, and not come in too large a number at the same time.

Many are now afraid to become infected themselves after seeing images from Italy and stay at home for this reason. It's understandable, but wrongly thought out. We should keep going to work but go home when we feel a cold coming on. Children should, at least for now, go to school but be home when they are poorly. Then you should also not go to work/the store and infect people there when someone is sick at home. This is a show of solidarity for the elderly, for the aforementioned reasons. Grandparents should not take care of the sick children.

In Italy, the spread has certainly been going on for much longer than stated, and dissemination took place early (without realizing it) even among healthcare professionals and in hospitals. The measures now being taken in Italy are likely to have little impact on the future.

What is the most effective way to prevent infection right now?
Don't be at work and school if you are feeling unwell. Stay at home and watch Netflix. If you feel sick, do not meet or invite friends into your home and don’t just pop to the shops. Wait two days after you feel well before returning to work or sending children to school. Wash your hands when you come to work, before you eat and when you come home from work. Use common sense.

You should not avoid going to work, meeting friends and living as usual as long as you do not have any symptoms. Grandchildren can say hello to Grandma via Skype rather than meeting indoors. Take the chance to start cycling and go to work - that's the top for more reasons.

It is important to understand that the advanced protective equipment now used at the infection clinics is designed to prevent infection from reaching the ward and other patients, not to protect the staff as such. We will be infected as much as others. At the shops, on the bus or other places where we pick up our colds.

Please note that the healthcare system is now changing its sampling recommendations. We will only take samples for medical reasons. That is, just as we usually take samples for respiratory tract infection, when taking a position to treat for pneumonia and when hospitalized.

What exactly is Covid-19?
The Coronavirus (CoV) family has long been present in humans. There are a number of different strains and Coronavirus constitutes a proportion of the viruses that give us common cold. More recently, three new Corona strains have taken to humans from the animal kingdom, a virus to which we have no immunity.

In 2002, there was a minor epidemic with Corona where the disease was named SARS (Severe Acute Respitatory Syndrome) in China but also Canada had a number of cases. This virus, called SARS-CoV, caused severe symptoms in a large proportion of those who became ill, and mortality was high. The virus died out - a virus that causes such severe symptoms is rarely spread effectively in the population (you do not go around and transmit it in the form of common cold).

2012 came the next coronavirus, originating in Saudi Arabia. The source of infection was camels. This virus causes pronounced airway disease, and human-to-human infection has been sparse, and no actual outbreaks have occurred. The disease condition was called MERS (Middle East Respiratory Syndrome) and the virus is called MERS-CoV.

Now we have the third virus here, where the virus is called severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), and the disease "COVID-19" (COrona VIral Disease). The spread is completely different, and the picture has become very scary, with images of chaos in China and Italy. The links with the previous two viruses has of course increased concern. However, the clinical picture is quite different for the absolute majority than for the other two, usually with symptoms such as normal upper respiratory tract infection, but where a small proportion, especially the elderly, have pronounced lung effects.
 
Jul 30, 2012
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As the link posted earlier, the problem appears to be a new virus that is new, that a portion of the populace have severe problems with. Given that its new its easily spread, thus it comes as a flash in the pan rather than a slow burn. As the government plans is to develop group immunity and isolate the vunerable, so when they do get it it will come gradually and the medical services will not be overwhelmed. Is your dad on skype Tengu, it may be better if you do not see him for a while.
 

Navaja

Tenderfoot
Apr 1, 2016
55
28
Spain/UK
Judging by the UK news this morning the enormousness of this is being released little by little to avoid more panic.........
All I can say is take the slowing of the spread seriously, it's being acknowledged now that the NHS is going to be overloaded.
This is exactly the time when friendly neighbours are really important, be it next door or the next country. :(
 

Woody girl

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Mar 31, 2018
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When I heard that China had locked down and taken such drastic measures I knew that it was a very serious situation. China does not wreck it's economy just for fun. It has has a policy for years to make the western world dependant on it for manufacturing. Why destroy it for a bit of flu.?
I began straight away to prepare for something serious though when I tried to tell people most didn't bother to make any preps and stuck their heads in the sand did nothing and either laughed at me or told me not to worry. Or I was being stupid.
I felt like Noah and the ark!
The UK government have dropped the ball and it's gathering speed down the hill. The result is going to be awfull.
On a brighter note. The air is cleaner as most airlines are not flying and roads are empty of cars. Air pollution is well down.
Maybe nature is giving us a message and a lesson.
 

Navaja

Tenderfoot
Apr 1, 2016
55
28
Spain/UK
It's good that you've taken it seriously Woody girl, I'm really worried the lack of others doing so! I can't believe the lack of posts here, the other things folks are occupying themselves with right now other than preparation will seem so insignificant shortly!

Talking to family in the UK today & advising them best I can & it occurred to me that people here I talk to feel like they are sort of "dreaming", like this can't be happening but know it actually is, it was only Thursday when for me it switched from something I was seeing on the news to being real.

If this doesn't seem unbelievable to you maybe you're not taking it seriously enough.

Here (Spain) it's going to get bad, very bad & the same is going to follow in the UK but with one of the least prepared health services of us all...........

Please look after yourselves & others, stop the virus spread now, limit contact with others, lives depend on what you are doing right now.
 
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Edtwozeronine

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Jan 18, 2020
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Thunderf00ts latest video on the matter, it really doesn't sound like you want this virus!
Also criticizing Trump for his retardedly lax attitude towards it.
 

Woody girl

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One thing not to forget when you are doing your shopping are the food banks. Please remember those less fortunate than yourselves that maybe not be able to go out and get a big shop to prepare for an inevertable lock down or isolation if they get ill.
Food banks are suffering from lack of donations as everyone thinks only of themselves.
 

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