The bustard has landed

[Keith_Beef]

News on the reintroduction of the Great Bustard on the BBC's website.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/3530030.stm

Keith.

 

[Rhoda]

Nice link Keith, its always great to see indigenous species reintroduced to their areas where they have been hunted out.
I was chatting to some wolf conservation guys at the Royal Cornwall show a few weeks ago about the reintroduction of wolves to Scotland. I think the actual event is still a long way off but it was interesting to hear that they are putting plans into place. Anyone have any opinions for or against reintroducing wolves?

 

[steve a]

I have no problem with the reintroduction of wildlife into once native areas as long as one remembers that a lot of animals died out because they could not sustain life due to our intervention by the destruction of their original enviroment. If that root cause is not addressed then they should not be re introduced as ultimately they will suffer once again.
The idea of wolf reintroduction, well I think too many people and politicians will believe the stories of bright eyes reflecting in the light of a camp fire and a lonely traveller savaged by a pack.Can you imagine what out redtop press will put out once they get hold of it, and of course if it's in a newspaper it's got to be right.
By the way there is no substantiated human death caused by wolves anywhere.

 

[Keith_Beef]

Nice link Keith, its always great to see indigenous species reintroduced to their areas where they have been hunted out.
I was chatting to some wolf conservation guys at the Royal Cornwall show a few weeks ago about the reintroduction of wolves to Scotland. I think the actual event is still a long way off but it was interesting to hear that they are putting plans into place. Anyone have any opinions for or against reintroducing wolves?

I posted about the bustards a while back, and have followed the story a bit since then.

Wolves, though are a whole different kettle of fish.

They were re-inroduced in france, and the sheep farmers are not exactly keen on the project.

Keith.

 

[Wayne]

for more info on wolf conservation please visit

wolf conservation trust

 

[ChrisKavanaugh]

Isn't it ironic the animal that shares the common genetic material of our domestic dog is so reviled? The first domesticated animals were wolves with the right temperment. Anthropology has actually studied pack dynamics to compare with early humans. Undoubtedly wolves and people entered into a mutually beneficial partnership in hunting. In North America, the eradication of the Wolf has led to the ecological niche being taken over by coyotes. From a prehistoric range in the southwest they now roam from Alaska to Central America. Wolves were the coyote control. We also have the extremely dangerous phenomenon of wild dogs, coy-dogs and even pets that pack up and change from lassie to killers. Naturally wolves will attack domesticated stock. Firstly, they often supplant the wild prey base. Then there is the domestication of animals to little more than walking meat, milk or wool machines. A sheep and many cattle species can barely get out of their own way. Most of the alleged predations are mere scavenging an animal allready dead from disease or stupidity. Should a predator attack a healthy herd, the animals have lost all defense mechanisms except to run. This triggers an automatic attack response in the predator. Animals that kick or butt back do not suffer these losses. There are several herding dogs from europe being introduced that bond with the herd and guard against predation very effectively. We even use desert burros with the same effect. I want wolves in my world.

 

[tomtom]

I have no problem with the reintroduction of wildlife into once native areas as long as one remembers that a lot of animals died out because they could not sustain life due to our intervention by the destruction of their original enviroment.

this is not always the case.. the bustard died out only because it was hunted to extinction (sp) not becuse of its enviroment so this can be countered by placing a hunting ban on the animals (as has been done with the bustard)

 

[Rhoda]

I absolutely agree that conservation and restoration of the habitat from which the animal has disappeared is the most important factor when considering a reintroduction program. The wolves that were reintroduced to Yellowstone National Park have survived so well because the habitat is protected, as are the wolves themselves within the boundaries of the park. By reintroducing the wolves the natural balance of the ecosystem is returning. Not only are coyote nubers being brought under control but the vegetation that was being destroyed by increased elk numbers is now recovering, and with it the insects dependant on it, the birds dependant on the insects and so on. The removal of a top predator from an area affects every level of the food chain, so providing the habitat can still sustain the wolf, reintroduction can only be a positive thing. Its just a matter of educating the people who still believe in the big bad wolf image.
As for the loss of livestock, that would be inevitable but I've heard that wolves reintroduced to other areas actually took far less livestock from farmers than predicted. Am I correct in thinking that in the US farmers are compensted for the loss of animals due to predation by reintroduced wolves?

 

[Buckshot]

Is there an area remote and big enough to successfully reintroduce wolves in the UK. The Scottish highlands would be the obvious choice but I'm not sure even this is remote enough.

Yellowstone is successful, perhaps largely due to it's size and the reletive lack of human habitation in it. Although there are areas of unhibatated highland in Scotland would there be enough area for there to be a minimal impact on humans and farming - which does cover most of Scotland in one way or another.

I guess the largest income is from farming and shooting in these areas, I can see opposition from both camps. The odd deer or sheep taken occasionally is no real problem but if wolves come into regular contact with farming (of one sort or another) I can see conflicts happening, fences being erected spoiling the area etc just to keep prey and killer apart. That can't be good.

I'm not opposed to the reintroduction of wolves, I just think we need to view it with an objective mind rather than a romantic one. Humans are only going to increase in numbers in the UK so any quiet areas will become smaller as time goes by further compounding the problem.

Just a thought

Mark

 

[Rhoda]

A fair point, like I said it can only work if the habitat can sustain the population of wolves. I think that a large area would need to be set aside as protected habitat for any potential reintroductions and perhaps there isn't anywhere in the UK large enough if you consider the ever growing human population. It will certainly be interesting to see what is decided in years to come.

 

[ChrisKavanaugh]

Rhoda, There are various compensation efforts, both public and private. It's effectiveness is rather mixed. It almost takes a forensic pathologist to determine what killed the animal. Like I said in my post, wolves are certainly going to scavenge.I know of one instance in Arizona where a prize breeding bull got loose and ran off into an arroyo ( big water cut ditch) and broke it's idiot neck. The rancher merely waited until coyotes started feeding, took pictures, shot a few and then cried for compensation. The hunting industry is extremely hostile to reintroduction. To hear them talk, the tentative reintroductions have exploded into mega packs with thousands of wolves slaughtering OUR trophy animals. Many reintroduced animals have been deliberately shot.It's called the 3S rule, Shoot,shovel and shut up and normally means troublesome dogs. The game animals are not immune either. The buffalo of yellowstone have been slaughtered every year. Ranchers have this rediculous idea buffalo are going to interbreed and spread Brucellosis in their herds. As a result any animal that wanders off park boundaries is killed ( and sold at a handsome profit.) The irony is buffalo (or american bison to be correct) are becoming a growing option for health conscious consumers. They have extremely lean ( and delicious) meat, are given no hormones or vaccinations and are the only large mammal that never gets cancer! There was even a book postulating a return to a huge prairie buffalo commons. The populations in that area are actually dropping. Now that would be a recovery! Buffalo certainly don't need help from predators. Having tried to practise cutting one ONCE on horseback I can tell you from personal experience.

 

[steve a]

The irony is buffalo (or american bison to be correct) are becoming a growing option for health conscious consumers. They have extremely lean ( and delicious) meat,

Anyone who is going to the Wilderness gathering this September, which is held on a Bison Farm can purchase Bison Steaks and other cuts of meat from the farm shop, I can vouch it is really tasty, you just have to watch how you cook them as they cook really quickly .This year they are having a BBQ so everyone who wants to can have a taste.

 

[Richard]

There was a recent paper in Mammal Review (the Mammal Society's journal) which discussed the issues surrounding the re-introduction of once-native large carnivores - i.e. wolf, lynx and bear. The study looked at the size and availability of suitable habitat (mainly Scotland), public fears, livestock concerns, and European experiences, etc. Some interesting conclusions came out. For instance, the study found that lynx may be the most feasible (first?) re-introduction for a number of reasons.

As for Rhoda's question re. compensation for farmers, I know that such a scheme exists in Northern Spain, but is problematic as some conservationists there believe that many domestic dog kills are 'sold' as wolf-kills to get compensation.

Studies have also shown that (mostly limited) wolf predation on livestock can be successfully deterred using traditional guarding dogs. Wolves may also have a beneficial effect on controlling soaring deer numbers and allowing some natural woodland regeneration in the Highlands.

The concerns over predation aren't just limited to re-introductions. The otter is making a fantastic comeback in the UK having suffered greatly in the 50s and 60s due primarliy to certain pesticides entering the aquatic food chain. This comeback is very welcome to us conservation/wildlife types, but there is a growing concern amongst fishery owners/managers, who are worried about loosing (often very expensive) fish, particularly where they are concentrated in a still-water fishery. Methods such as fencing seem to offer a solution, but can be expensive. One to watch!

I think that when we ask less-affluent countries to conserve their endangered species, we don't have much of a leg to stand on if we don't seriously consider re-introducing some of our native fauna.

I look forward to the day I can track Wolves in the UK!

 

[Keith_Beef]

Bad news, I'm afraid...
Foxes got two of the chicks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/3755216.stm

But on an optimistic note,

"To lose two within a month is a lower death rate than we had predicted."

"In the wild, more than 78% of chicks die within the first year,"

Keith.

 

[Lurch]

Interesting that the chicks were just killed and not eaten by Charlie.

 

[Realgar]

How do we know they weren't eaten?

 

[Lurch]

How do we know they weren't eaten?

Dave Waters, who heads the project, said the two victims were “typical fox kills”, their heads bitten off with no effort made to eat the carcasses

From the Guardian I think.

 

[Lurch]

Yup Guardian it is
Story here

 

[Richie]

The primary cause of the decline of the Otter was a change in habitat due to the war. We needed more farm land to produce are own crops due to merchant shipping being sunk. The pesticides and fertilisers were just the nail in the coffin for the otters which were already in great decline.

It would be great to see the introduction of Wolves into the UK just hope it is possible to maintain/created a sustainable habitat for them.