The Advantages of A flintlock Gun for Long Term Wilderness Living/Survival.

[santaman2000]

As for those who doubt the accuracy of muzzleloaders, you'd do well to remember that the smaller calibers (.32) Tennessee long rifles were actually small game rifles (think hitting a grey squirrel moving through the trees) Granted, those were rifled barrels, not smoothbores.

 

[santaman2000]

Never seen a double barrelled flintlock.

Sure you can take on anything in optimal circumstances.

I'm going to leave it there.

Night!


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Ive never seen a flintlock one personally either (I have seen several double barrel percussion rifles, shotguns, and Howda Pistols and they're still being offered) However, research indicates they go back as far as matchlocks.

 

[santaman2000]

....Sometimes Santa I think you deliberately misunderstand. Inherent weaknesses referred to smoothbore (range), flintlock ignition (pissing rain) and black powder (performance). So stalking in Scotland (wet), mouflon hunting (often rangey) and driven boar (needing reliability and a hail of lead)


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No, I fully understand the limitations of black powder when wet (however I think we've been cross commenting regarding "ignition" issues. I was mainly speaking of the slower ignition you and others have referred too during normal conditions. If a black powder gun is properly loaded it really isn't that much of a problem.

Regarding wet powder, I agree. But whether with black powder or modern guns, I just don't hunt in "pissing rain." The game's not moving and neither am I; we're both hiding from the lightning. Squirrels are in their hollow trees, quail are bunched away in hidden spots, bears are in their dens, even the ducks are generally grounded.

As for "wet" conditions (presumably you mean wet foliage and such after the rain) so what? I wait until I'm in the stand and dry, then load the gun. The powder ain't gonna get wet while sitting in a tree or on a ground stand; especially with the aforementioned balloon or condom over the end of the barrel (at least not with my preferred percussion guns, I'd agree flintlocks are more susceptible) It's all a matter of knowing how to adapt to the needs.

Regarding driven boar, I restate that from a personal safety standpoint (which I presume is your inference) it's still irrelevant while in the tree stand. However to up the kill and take a few dozen said vermin, or a few hundred, I'd prefer to go full-auto from a helicopter.

 

[Countryman]

Seen videos of that too. Whilst it looks fun again from an animal welfare perspective it's out of order.

In Europe we don't mow our game down. We respect it. In mainland Europe we blow a fanfare to it with our hats off in the dawn before we go out and in the dark at the end of the day.

All fun and games when you hunt for sport. In a needs must scenario for putting food on the table you may not have a choice of waiting out the weather. Having a cull target in the UK means being out in the misty predawn, drizzle, rain, snow and whatever else you have to be. That's why stainless synthetic guns are popular with pro's here. Then there is Scotland. Well what can I say? It's magical when it stops raining but mostly on the hill it's wetter than a swimming pool. Just grateful when it freezes!

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[santaman2000]

Seen videos of that too. Whilst it looks fun again from an animal welfare perspective it's out of order.

In Europe we don't mow our game down. We respect it. In mainland Europe we blow a fanfare to it with our hats off in the dawn before we go out and in the dark at the end of the day......

Wild hogs aren't game; they're invasive vermin and are treated as such. Much like destructive 200 pound rats that destroy thousands of dollars of crops every night and hundreds of thousands worth of wildlife habitat. We're not as squeamish about them. Kinda like y'all view crows and pigeons except your crows and pigeons are native whereas the hogs aren't. Our preferred goal is the complete elimination of the species from the continent (their welfare isn't even a consideration)

 

[Countryman]

Same argument saw Myxomatosis introduced.

If you are going to kill anything it needs to be as humanely as possible. I don't think we will agree on this point so shall we move on/ call it a day?


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[santaman2000]

......All fun and games when you hunt for sport. In a needs must scenario for putting food on the table you may not have a choice of waiting out the weather. Having a cull target in the UK means being out in the misty predawn, drizzle, rain, snow and whatever else you have to be. That's why stainless synthetic guns are popular with pro's here. Then there is Scotland. Well what can I say? It's magical when it stops raining but mostly on the hill it's wetter than a swimming pool. Just grateful when it freezes!...

When putting food on the table is the end game I'll go back to the traplines and trotlines (that's what real pros have always done) If waiting out the weather means going hungry for a couple of days, or just eating the crops/meat that's already squirreled away, so be it. That's the way it works. And waiting out the weather has less to do with "luxury" (I love being in weather such as you describe and "drizzles" aren't even considered bad weather) but the reality is the quarry won't be there anyway.

 

[Countryman]

If Highland Reds gave a hoot about rain then they would not live in Scotland!



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[Laurentius]

I am in no position to comment on the merits of any kind of firearm here, and I don't foresee the need to hunt game in order to survive in the immediate future, however this thread has reminded me of something. Flintlocks are definately something that attracts the enthusiast, and I can recall a former junior school teacher of mine who was something or other in the muzzle loaders association. He would occasionally bring his flintlocks into the school for things like Summer fetes and seeing him on the playing field firing off a long musket is an abiding memory. Unfortunately he died a few years back, but he certainly was an inspiring teacher as well as a family friend.

 

[Countryman]

Yup the real black powder anoracks are a breed apart.

Couple photo's from one of the events I normally RCO at, the Pheonix Meeting at Bisley which is over the late May Bank Holiday.

Dress up is not normal but the black powder buffs love it.

They are a whole lot of fun.


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[Hibrion]

I can't contribute here except to say I would love the opportunity to try blackpowder. Ireland's laws are such that there is essentially no black powder shooting of a any kind here.

Would love to give that cowboy action stuff a try - it looks like great fun.

 

[santaman2000]

If Highland Reds gave a hoot about rain then they would not live in Scotland!



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Possibly so. I assume those are a species of deer? But I also assumed the Op was about a single person are a small family (not a village type scenario) For most early settlers and homesteaders bigger game was taken, but the focus for the table was small game (i.e. squirrels, rabbits, fowl) That's a generalization of course, not an absolute.

A bit of research shows that the British Army was still using smoothbores, first the Brown Bess and then the percussion replacement (both of which appear to have been excellent guns although with less than rifle accuracy) well into the mid 1800s, whereas most Americans had switched to rifles as early as a century prior. I wonder if the difference of our (apparently cultural) opinions on the accuracy of muzzleloaders might be influenced by the resulting "corporate" memory?

 

[santaman2000]

I can't contribute here except to say I would love the opportunity to try blackpowder. Ireland's laws are such that there is essentially no black powder shooting of a any kind here.

Would love to give that cowboy action stuff a try - it looks like great fun.

Last time I checked around they have a CAS group just about 40 miles from me in Pensacola, but I've never tried it either (despite having three guns that would do nicely in such shooting: 1) a Colt SAA, 2) a Stevens double barrel 12 gauge, & 3) a CVA 44 cap & ball; and two that would do equally nicely in "Rendezvous": 1) the same cap & ball, and 2) the previously mentioned Hawkin) It does indeed look fun.

 

[Hibrion]

Last time I checked around they have a CAS group just about 40 miles from me in Pensacola, but I've never tried it either (despite having three guns that would do nicely in such shooting: 1) a Colt SAA, 2) a Stevens double barrel 12 gauge, & 3) a CVA 44 cap & ball; and two that would do equally nicely in "Rendezvous": 1) the same cap & ball, and 2) the previously mentioned Hawkin) It does indeed look fun.

My 30-30 wini 94 is the closest I can get here, and that's just for hunting and using modern ammo
I'd like to think some time in the future things will open up, but legislation seems only to be getting structer for firearms and powder. We can't even reload!

 

[santaman2000]

My 30-30 wini 94 is the closest I can get here, and that's just for hunting and using modern ammo
I'd like to think some time in the future things will open up, but legislation seems only to be getting structer for firearms and powder. We can't even reload!

I've only ever used modern ammo in the Colt and the Stevens myself. Said Stevens is really a 28 inch hunting barrem rather than the shorter coach guns that'd be really nice in the CAS but it would still work.

 

[Janne]

Possibly so. I assume those are a species of deer? But I also assumed the Op was about a single person are a small family (not a village type scenario) For most early settlers and homesteaders bigger game was taken, but the focus for the table was small game (i.e. squirrels, rabbits, fowl) That's a generalization of course, not an absolute.

A bit of research shows that the British Army was still using smoothbores, first the Brown Bess and then the percussion replacement (both of which appear to have been excellent guns although with less than rifle accuracy) well into the mid 1800s, whereas most Americans had switched to rifles as early as a century prior. I wonder if the difference of our (apparently cultural) opinions on the accuracy of muzzleloaders might be influenced by the resulting "corporate" memory?

In mainland Europe, the so called 'capital game" like deer, bison and boar were the sole property of the land owners which basically means the royalty and aristocracy. Very few farmers owned the land they were farming, they were tenants.
The game they hunted were rabbits, hare plus birds. Ibex, bear, wolf and other animals like that were a rarity since the Middle Ages. As far as I know squirrels were only hunted in Sweden ( plus Finland?) by the poorest. Not much else was hunted.
Indeed the .22lR rifle was permit free in Sweden until the 1960's or so, so the poorest farm workers could put meat in the cooking pot!

 

[Janne]

In the US you have a different pig than in the US. I believe they are feral domestic pigs ( Sus Domesticus). Wild boar ( Sus Scrofa) is indigenous in Europe but was virtually hunted to extinction. Only kept in some game parks. They started spreading in Northern Europe again in the 1970's. Before I left Sweden in -95 they were not a big problem, but now it is so bad the season is Open year round for them.
Paul McCartney bought an estate close to Eastbourne in Sussex, and bbeing a vegetarian ( his late wife turned him to the Dark Side) he released them into the wild. That is at least was I have been told.
They are spreading quickly in UK. Do horrible damage for the farmers and gardeners.

On the positive side, a young wild boar is extremely delicious.

 

[Navek]

Since when have muzzle loaders been illegal to hunt with in the uk....I no a man who use a muzzle loader to shoot crows pigeon rabbit and thin he's took fox aswell all in the uk.... He post about it on the Internet

 

[Janne]

Since when have muzzle loaders been illegal to hunt with in the uk....I no a man who use a muzzle loader to shoot crows pigeon rabbit and thin he's took fox aswell all in the uk.... He post about it on the Internet

Muzzle loaded shotgun?

 

[santaman2000]

In the US you have a different pig than in the US. I believe they are feral domestic pigs ( Sus Domesticus). Wild boar ( Sus Scrofa) is indigenous in Europe but was virtually hunted to extinction. Only kept in some game parks. They started spreading in Northern Europe again in the 1970's. Before I left Sweden in -95 they were not a big problem, but now it is so bad the season is Open year round for them.
Paul McCartney bought an estate close to Eastbourne in Sussex, and bbeing a vegetarian ( his late wife turned him to the Dark Side) he released them into the wild. That is at least was I have been told.
They are spreading quickly in UK. Do horrible damage for the farmers and gardeners.

On the positive side, a young wild boar is extremely delicious.

The vast majority here are feral domestics although some Russian wild boar were also released sporadically to try to make them a true game species. That said, they're not exactly recent escapees from farms. The Spanish explorers deliberately released them all around the New World in the 15th and 16th centuries so they've had quite some time to de-evolve back to a wild state.

There is at least one native species (peccaries) which are smaller and have a limited range in the Soutwest.

It sounds as though they're as devastating there as they are here (allowing for the bigger foothold they have here, which they'll quickly gain there as well) so it's obvious why we have no real love for them.

As for how they taste, well, that's highly variable and dependent on just what they've eaten themselves recently. After all, they're omnivorous and said diet varies widely with area and season. The bad thing is that whenever you have a successful hog hunt there's far too much meat to be used legally (we can't sell it or even give it to charities here) so they're mostly left to rot.

Being feral, most states considered them legally the property of the landowners until recently.