Take down air rifles.

[Roving Rich]

:icon_redf Doh, i kinda overlooked that wilderness Gathering rule in my excitement. got suitabley chastised by Roger (sorry roger won't happen again)
The S16 is a beautiful rifle, i considered it but didn't like the idea of having to unscrew the buddy bottle to take it down. Its also heavy, so is the price tag IIRC :yikes:
But logan are probabley the best manufacturer at the moment IMO.

Cheers
Rich

 

[dogman]

:icon_redf Doh, i kinda overlooked that wilderness Gathering rule in my excitement. got suitabley chastised by Roger (sorry roger won't happen again)
The S16 is a beautiful rifle, i considered it but didn't like the idea of having to unscrew the buddy bottle to take it down. Its also heavy, so is the price tag IIRC :yikes:
But logan are probabley the best manufacturer at the moment IMO.

Cheers
Rich

until you run out of air :rolmao:

 

[leon-1]

until you run out of air :rolmao:

Just get yourself a stirrup pump ):

 

[Quill]

The prices of these are the price of a good "regular" gun. That makes them hard to buy. By the way, can you charge one of these from a porti compressor tank?

 

[leon-1]

The prices of these are the price of a good "regular" gun. That makes them hard to buy. By the way, can you charge one of these from a porti compressor tank?

Quill, these type of rifle are normally charged from either a dive cylinder or a stirrup pump, both are quite pricey (stirrup pumps for these are about £125 - £130 for a decent one). Probable reasons for the cost is the pressures that they have to achieve, around 230 Bar, some of the new ones have all sorts of filters in them to stop dirt and moisture entering into the precharge cylinder of your pricey rifle.

I am currently using an AA Pro-Sport and had been looking at a Falcon light hunter, but after looking at Rich's rifle at the gathering I am now considering this as another alternative, it hefted well and was very comfortable in the shoulder. Very Nice Rifle Rich :biggthump .

 

[dogman]

Stirrup pumps are all well and good, but, it's another piece of kit to carry and as you've mentioned before they can allow moisture into the rifle.

pneumatics are great guns for hunting with multi shots available and near silence but for bushcraft / survival use you wont beat a springer with a quality scope and silencer

 

[shaggystu]

just out of interest does anyone know of any take down spring rifles?

stuart

 

[leon-1]

just out of interest does anyone know of any take down spring rifles?
stuart

I seem to recall an old spring gun which had a detachable stock made by a company called ASI, but that was a long time ago.

Stirrup pumps are all well and good, but, it's another piece of kit to carry and as you've mentioned before they can allow moisture into the rifle.
pneumatics are great guns for hunting with multi shots available and near silence but for bushcraft / survival use you wont beat a springer with a quality scope and silencer

Neither guns are survival weapons as the chances that you would have one stuffed in your PSK are very unlikely, as Bushcraft tools both are acceptable, an S410TDR will give about 40 shots off a full charge according to its spec (reality that means about 30) if you are out for 5 days that is sufficent for that period of time unless of course you wish to shoot everything that moves.
If you are out for longer then either a spring or gasram type system would be a good thing to have.

Stirrup pumps, well if you have a precharge you will probably be carrying a lighter weight anyway (about 6 pounds as opposed to 9) and there is no reason that before you embark on your trip the weapon has not been correctly zeroed and charged to its max. You could also leave the pump in your car.

 

[Lurch]

:icon_redf Doh, i kinda overlooked that wilderness Gathering rule in my excitement.

I did tell ya.
Only yourself to blame! :biggthump

 

[leon-1]

Its here (my air rifle that is), and feels absolutely georgeous ! ):
I can't wait to get out and play - only one problem no sight !!!! :shock: and that won't be in my grubbly little hands for another week ! what am i gonna do ? just look at it and practice taking it apart and putting it back together for a week :yikes:
I may take it to the widerness gathering , so it doesn't get lonely and if you guys a really good i may just let you stroke it. I doubt there will be an opportunity to use it though so don't get to exited

:hyper: :hyper: :hyper:

Rich

Rich, I have recently chatted with my local shooting supplies store and they said "It's not available yet" and that "are you sure, did you actually see it!!!", the answer of yes, that I had handled it briefly came out and they turned round and said "I doubt that very much".

Out of sheer bloody mindidness I have now ordered this rifle and been told it will arrive tomorrow (24hr turnaround, not bad at all), once I have it in my sticky little paws I will go into the shop and ask "can I have ammunition for this please" with a smug grin.

If you wish I will let you know about the scope and the Hill stirrup that extracts moisture from the air along with potentially dangerous particles (for the rifle) :biggthump .

 

[ESpy]

They'll sell you a tin of imaginary pellets to go with your non-existent rifle...

As for damp air/dry air - my cylinders are for Nitrox, so even when I'm working with 21% O2 (which is all I use in the rifle), it still has to be dry air - even drier than the stuff that is normally pumped. I'm not keen on the pumps because of the amount of moisture they leave in.

 

[leon-1]

They'll sell you a tin of imaginary pellets to go with your non-existent rifle...

As for damp air/dry air - my cylinders are for Nitrox, so even when I'm working with 21% O2 (which is all I use in the rifle), it still has to be dry air - even drier than the stuff that is normally pumped. I'm not keen on the pumps because of the amount of moisture they leave in.

Pete the new pumps by Hill are equipped with a filter that extracts moisture from the air.

The look on the guys face was worth the cost of the rifle when I wandered in there today and asked for some pellets for it with it in its carry case in one hand):

 

[Roving Rich]

Fantastic, bet his jaw dropped ! ):
What beautiful bit of kit eh.
So how much did the oump set you back then ? I was going to get a second hand diving bottle and go that route as the pumps are quite pricey :roll:
so long as it is PERMITTED :icon_redf and i have told SWMBO by then, I intend to take it to the next meetup, and people can have a try
cheers
Rich

 

[leon-1]

The pumps aren't cheap, with the filter to remove any moisture from the air they cost just under £170 :yikes:, I bought the normal one for the moment, but it has the facility to upgrade it to one with the moisture filter :biggthump .

I'll probably upgrade after payday and then it will be a case of every 2-3 months changing the crystals to maintain a relatively moisture free enviroment for the precharge cylinder. The precharge is recommended to be about 110 bar, I had this one running at about 145 bar, after 30 shots that dropped to around 105 bar.

The sight is the 3-9 X 40 AGS mildot, with detailed instructions on how the mildot is used (I learnt about this in the forces and the instructions in the box are very good).

It took two check groups to establish an average fall of shot and a further 5 rounds adjust fire and the rifle was zeroed @ 20 meters. I then turned in a 5 round group from sitting that was covered by a 5 pence piece. This was done using Air Arms Diablo Field pellets.

Accuracy, ease of use, and power are very good, the very slightest gripe that I have is the bolt is not the smoothest that I have used, but having said that it seemed to get better as I used it and it is by no means the worst that I have used either.

It is quick to shoulder, with the cheek resting on the cheekpiece naturally the eye is looking almost perfectly down the center of the telescopic without having had to adjust the butt plate at all and the weight is not excessive (my other rifle is an Air Arms Pro-Sport and it weighs in at around 9 pounds), it has been very well thought out, with the carrying bag containing the three major parts when it is stripped it is a very compact and likeable unit.

Major warning for anyone that is thinking of buying one, it is addictive to shoot, as a result you will find yourself trying to find smaller and smaller things to annihilate with this and will not stop until the job is complete, this can be both costly and tiring (tiring due to having to use a pump to recharge every now and then in my case). All in all it is probably one of the best thought out and performing air rifles that I have ever used, Air Arms :You_Rock_

 

[Roving Rich]

):
hehe

So how does the milldot work ? I got offered it but turned it down. Can you judge range to target with it ?
I may save the extra pennies and put it towards a nightsight. :roll:

Cheers
Rich

 

[leon-1]

):
hehe

So how does the milldot work ? I got offered it but turned it down. Can you judge range to target with it ?
I may save the extra pennies and put it towards a nightsight. :roll:

Cheers
Rich

Rich, mildot can be used in a number of ways, firstly you can judge distance using it, but you can also adjust fire very accurately using it if you know the range that you are firing at.

The military use standard heights of objects (fence posts, telegraph poles, the average height of a man) basically anything that you see on a regular basis which has an average height, this in conjunction with MKA theory enables you to establish range. MKA theory for those that do not know is; 1mil of angle = 1 meter @ 1 kilometer

So the theory goes that a fence post is about 4' (1.21 metres), so at 300 metres 1mil is = to 30cm and hence 4 mils is about four feet in height at 300 metres.

You can then use this to adjust fire because you know the adjustment that 1 click gives you on your sight at 100 metres.

 

[Roving Rich]

Wow, never knew that :notworthy I always wondered why military compases were in mils not degrees.
I like the theory but .... dunno that i can apply it to bunnies at a range of 30m. Thats not even 1 "click", and and with an average height when grazing of only 10cm ish, i don't think its gonna help. If i were using an FAC rifle from a longer distance then yep.
I'll save my pennies. Thanks for explaining it tho Leon :biggthump

Cheers
Rich

 

[leon-1]

I like the theory but .... dunno that i can apply it to bunnies at a range of 30m. Thats not even 1 "click", and and with an average height when grazing of only 10cm ish, i don't think its gonna help. If i were using an FAC rifle from a longer distance then yep.
I'll save my pennies. Thanks for explaining it tho Leon :biggthump

Cheers
Rich

Rich the average adjustment on one of these sights is minute at 100m, approx 7.5mm, use multiples of four clicks adjustment, this gives you 30mm adjustment.

Divide range by 3 and adjustment by 3 you get 10mm for four clicks at 33m or if you divide by four, @ 25m you have an adjustment of 7.5mm, it is just practice and after a while you will know both rifle and sight inside out which makes life easier.

 

[Roving Rich]

Gotcha, that is useful then. So I need to judge the range pretty accurately, then adjust the sight by the number of clicks.
I have always relied on dead reckoning, just aiming slightly high on the target at a longer range. But the milldot sounds like it would prove much more accurate - I better look into the price difference :roll:
Good (First) field review in this months (October ?) Airgunner magazine - Reviewer had to buy one aswell :biggthump

Cheers
Rich

 

[Buckshot]

The mil dot is a more accurate way of shooting because it gives you something positive to line up.
Aiming off is a case of putting the cross hairs somewhere around the target.

Don't forget though that if you're going to use a mill dot at say, 25m and adjust the aim point so you're aiming via a dot rather than the cross hairs you're adjusting the point of impact by 7.5mm (as per Leon1's note). That means to get the benefit, you need to be able to shoot to that sort of accuracy - consistantly, from any shooting position, in any weather.

Mil dot was designed for longer ranges and that is where it comes into it's own.

If I were you Rich, I would look for a decent scope you like, regardless of reticule type. It's more important you have confidence in your kit and can shoot well and quickly with rather than trying to work out if you should be aiming half, or a quarter, of an inch high. You will still hit the kill zone.

Obviously thats only my opinion.

Cheers

Mark