Survival Tins - Updates

[neoaliphant]

How are you going to get a football table in a baccy tin?

And what was in the WW2 one, anyway?

Will post here when i find out,
lol i meant they didnt get much gear at the start, only what they stole off otehr units, very ill equipped,
so stands to reason they might recycle tobbacco tins for their gear

 

[Minotaur]

One of my clients helped form the SAS, ill ask him what he remembers from when they were formed.
apparently they used to steal most of their gear from other divisions, especially football tables and otehr entertainments.

You know an Original?

Thats why trangia mess tin is great, its halfway between british army mess tin and a tobacco tin, and has fitting lid, just tape around and its sealed.

LOL several times I have decorated my tin or first aid kit in blood getting them open. It is why my EDC tin just opens, no tape. My survival tin has tape and is wrapped with paracord normally so not something you open in a hurry.
I saw on the first aid forum here the idea of using one of those molle velco base pouches for your first aid kit and I am going to change even my boo boo kit (If I can find one I like in that size) to one because anyone can get to it and they so easy to open.

 

[Tengu]

Ok, lets think.

(Yes, I know that is a dangerous activity in me...)

The Australian SAS were also in charge of training civilian resistance in case anyone was so careless as to invade their country.

So a survival or escape and evasion kit might well be nothing you couldn't obtain handily from the local shop?

 

[Toddy]

Perhaps, but think about a rural society and farm tools.
Our own history turned those into pole arms. Modern-ish farm tools now though include shotguns, and bow saws, and barbed wire cutters.

 

[Crowe]

I guess LED equivalent would be a finger light. Originally intended for pilots, but seem to get put it kits for others.

Finger Lights

Finger Lights. Read more

www.cejayengineering.com

That's an interesting website. Thanks @Jared

 

[neoaliphant]

You know an Original?

SAS was formed during the war, then disbanded 2 years afterwards
7 years later they were reformed for action in Malaya, it was at this point Colin went out to get them set up, 5 years later they went back to england, at which point they were almost broken apart..
If anyone is interested, Colin has just published his memoirs, ive just spoken to him and hes happy for me to send the PDF to anyone who wants a read, PM me if anyone wants and ill send a google link.

 

[Minotaur]

SAS was formed during the war, then disbanded 2 years afterwards
7 years later they were reformed for action in Malaya, it was at this point Colin went out to get them set up, 5 years later they went back to england, at which point they were almost broken apart..
If anyone is interested, Colin has just published his memoirs, ive just spoken to him and hes happy for me to send the PDF to anyone who wants a read, PM me if anyone wants and ill send a google link.

Cool, so he would know Lt Col John "Johnny" Murdoch Cooper then and might have been around for Oman.
You really need to ask him about navigation, from a Bushcraft point of view, the SAS navigation course is supposed to be the best in the world mainly because it is done in Malaya taught by natives.

So a survival or escape and evasion kit might well be nothing you couldn't obtain handily from the local shop?

It might ( ) be an interesting discussion to try and work out which came first a survival or E&E kit. The WW2 airplane survival kits were E&E kits and in fact I would think any miltary kit has to lean towards E&E.

If you think about why give up room to a beta light or torch in a survival kit?

Perhaps, but think about a rural society and farm tools.
Our own history turned those into pole arms. Modern-ish farm tools now though include shotguns, and bow saws, and barbed wire cutters.

It is always interesting to hear the stories of how a weapon came into being. Krambits are allegedly hair grips of all things.
I might even have it somewhere however I always remember an article in Survival Weaponry and Techniques about self defense which talked about learning to use staff weapons because it would be the most obvious pick up weapon.

 

[Toddy]

Ah, I didn't know that; I thought that they were originally hand held sickles, but ones meant for digging up roots/rice etc.,

 

[TeeDee]

Cool, so he would know Lt Col John "Johnny" Murdoch Cooper then and might have been around for Oman.
You really need to ask him about navigation, from a Bushcraft point of view, the SAS navigation course is supposed to be the best in the world mainly because it is done in Malaya taught by natives.


It might ( ) be an interesting discussion to try and work out which came first a survival or E&E kit. The WW2 airplane survival kits were E&E kits and in fact I would think any miltary kit has to lean towards E&E.

If you think about why give up room to a beta light or torch in a survival kit?


It is always interesting to hear the stories of how a weapon came into being. Krambits are allegedly hair grips of all things.
I might even have it somewhere however I always remember an article in Survival Weaponry and Techniques about self defense which talked about learning to use staff weapons because it would be the most obvious pick up weapon.

Karambits are hair grips?




I thought the origin was that they were used in agricultural harvesting of reeds/corns/rice and the like, the index ring allowing one to retain the tool whilst 'holding' it on the pinky finger then swinging it back into position to use as a blade.

 

[Bishop]

It might ( ) be an interesting discussion to try and work out which came first a survival or E&E kit.

From what I have read so far the evolution was slow prior to 1940 with several groups working in isolation. At the outset of WWII flight crews were issued a tobacco sized emergency ration tin (boiled sweets, malted milk tablets, glycerine fruit chewy things), larger aircraft would also carry a crew FAK and IF operating over water an then inflatable dinghy, again for the whole crew. Things didn't really start evolving until July 1940 with the formation of the Special Operations Executive and it's them we owe for examples of the earliest kits containing silk scarf maps, peanut lighters, button compasses, dynamo torches and some of the earliest tactical body armour to prevent spinal injuries from a rough parachute landing.

 

[Jared]

BCB still sell glucose barley sugar sweets meant for lifeboat & liferafts, but £8.39 a tin. Looked them up the other day after seeing Sue at EatsTreats&MREs YouTube channel try them.

 

[neoaliphant]

MRESteve is another channel worth watching

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2I6Et1JkidnnbWgJFiMeHA

he generally tastes test them all...

 

[Minotaur]

Ah, I didn't know that; I thought that they were originally hand held sickles, but ones meant for digging up roots/rice etc.,

Karambits are hair grips?

I thought the origin was that they were used in agricultural harvesting of reeds/corns/rice and the like, the index ring allowing one to retain the tool whilst 'holding' it on the pinky finger then swinging it back into position to use as a blade.

Never heard that one however I had heard of them as fishing knifes with the ring there to stop it slipping.
Think about it the ring is what you stick your hair through and it a last ditch weapon so sort of like a teddy boys sharpened comb.

 

[TeeDee]

It is always interesting to hear the stories of how a weapon came into being. Krambits are allegedly hair grips of all things.
I might even have it somewhere however I always remember an article in Survival Weaponry and Techniques about self defense which talked about learning to use staff weapons because it would be the most obvious pick up weapon.

 

[forrestdweller]

Ok, lets think.

(Yes, I know that is a dangerous activity in me...)

The Australian SAS were also in charge of training civilian resistance in case anyone was so careless as to invade their country.

So a survival or escape and evasion kit might well be nothing you couldn't obtain handily from the local shop?

maybe slightly off topic but a true story passed on to me by an Australian friend who's sadly gone now...:
after the Port Arthur incident the Australian government tightened up gun laws and firearms restricted under the new law were bought back by the government. one guy turned up at a buy-back place asking them to open the gate for him so he was asked why he didn't just enter through the door like everyone else... he replied his weapon didn't fit through the door -- he turned up with an 40mm AA Bofors cannon...(i presume WW2 relict)
my friend's brother was allowed to keep his anti-tank rifle because it was a single-shooting weapon...

i guess there's a reason why the japanese only sent a small reconnaissance force late during the war (onto the ground) and God's own country is still amongst the countries you can't invade...

 

[neoaliphant]

Cool, so he would know Lt Col John "Johnny" Murdoch Cooper then and might have been around for Oman.
You really need to ask him about navigation, from a Bushcraft point of view, the SAS navigation course is supposed to be the best in the world mainly because it is done in Malaya taught by natives.

He says he does remember a Cooper, he was a driver/ drove a lot of the vehicles. This was in the early days of SAS.

Most of his navigation was by compass in jungle, or by stars in the desert..

 

[Minotaur]

He says he does remember a Cooper, he was a driver/ drove a lot of the vehicles. This was in the early days of SAS.

Yeah he was one of the Originals and started as Stirling's driver and was the navigator however he went all the way through to run 22nd I think off the top of me head. He is also the person who designed the first Fan Dance(in the desert so was not called that) which was basically walk into the desert until you have to drink from your canteen and then walk back passing being doing that with out drinking from canteen.

Most of his navigation was by compass in jungle, or by stars in the desert..

Damn not sure which biography it from however someone talks about this and it jungle based lay of the land navigation taught by natives of the area. It one of those couple of sentences in a book that makes you stop and go I want to know more about that. It about relating the map to the environment and moving through the environment using that knowledge. Not sure that a good explanation.

 

[Tengu]

I don't know much about the SAS in Malaysia; Was told a bit by a guy who had studied it (long and boring story involving a military artefact I had found)

He said they parachuted into jungle canopy; a lot died.

Come to think of it most of the commandoes in WW2 didnt come back, did they?

 

[Minotaur]

I don't know much about the SAS in Malaysia; Was told a bit by a guy who had studied it (long and boring story involving a military artefact I had found)

He said they parachuted into jungle canopy; a lot died.

Come to think of it most of the commandoes in WW2 didnt come back, did they?

The SAS are still in Malaysia, it the place you get sent for your first proper SAS training after Wales so the must like rainy places.

Lt Col John "Johnny" Murdoch Cooper famously had a broken arm from a jump in Malaysia which he did not tell anyone about for 3 days.

I think there was a thing with the SOE that they stopped jump training people because that was more dangerous than the one jump to get them in.

Not sure of the stats on Commandos however bet it was high because of the lack of heavy weapons however think there some stats somewhere about a Commando taking 10 soldiers off the front line or something like that.

 

[Lore]

www.bbc.co.uk › news › uk-englan...
Web results
SAS Operation Squatter: First mission a failure - BBC News

This happened in Libya and explains why they teamed up with the Long Range Desert Group,

en.m.wikipedia.org › wiki › Long_...
Web results
Long Range Desert Group - Wikipedia
(Sorry if off topic)