Survival Tins - Updates

[Burncycle]

One of the items he placed in it was a saw blade rolled around the inside which he could then make a frame out of. Brilliant idea I thought so I bought a saw blade but its too thick and will snap if I try an bend it to fit into a 16cm billy. Any recomandations for a saw blade thin enough to fit inside a 16cm billy?

A 24" bucksaw blade will fit into an altoids tin, so it should roll up into a 16cm billy no problem.

If you have the time to fashion a bucksaw out of it, that's probably the most robust option. Alternatively, a pocket chainsaw would coil up on the bottom fine, a Coghlans pocket sierra saw should fit handle and all, a short reciprocating saw blade should be easy enough, and of course wire saws, swiss army knives / leathermans.

A silky pocketboy 130 is just barely too big at 172 cm folded, but slips in a pocket easy, or if you're putting the billy into a pouch that happens to have an external pocket big enough...

 

[neoaliphant]

You can fit a 24" bucksaw blade, a pocket chainsaw, Coghlans pocket sierra saw, short reciprocating saw blade, and of course wire saws and swiss army knife / leathermans

Thats the thing, which 24" bucksaw blade coils in to a circle to fit in the bottom of the billy pot

 

[Burncycle]

Thats the thing, which 24" bucksaw blade coils in to a circle to fit in the bottom of the billy pot

Sorry, edited the above post for clarity. In the video he uses a bahco brand blade.

A 24" bucksaw blade should also fit into a Wazoo survival cache belt with a couple of inches to spare, but abrasion might be an issue long term.

 

[Minotaur]

Seen videos of Mors talking about his survival kit. It was more of a large zebra billy sized can. Not something which fits in the pocket.

Think this is that video.
As I mentioned up above the SAS survival kit from the book is not a tin. It is a pouch with a mess tin and other items.
#Mors Kochanski for all of the tagged videos.

 

[Silverclaws2]

More often than not, when it is we may find ourselves in such a situation so as to be described as a survival situation we are most often not in possession of all our shiny gear, of which we have spent so much time imagining, considering and even training in the use of, to ask, could folk do as well without all the gear?

For sure one one thing I have discovered of 'products' and yeah I have been a 'gear junkie' is that we may spend so much time in discovering and practising their use we might through ' tunnel vision; lose some useful creativity, as in what does nature provide than can do the same job, though perhaps more slowly, for to my understanding it's not kit that enables survival it's skills and perhaps, the ability to think outside of the 'product box'

Like I said, I used to be a 'gear junkie' until it was I met with ill health and extreme poverty to learn some very important lessons about 'gear' aka products, of which I could no longer afford, to find what pulled me through that poor situation was skills and skills learned through necessity not luxury.

I am no longer where I was to amongst some other things be back here but my take home lesson from that experience was don't learn to rely on stuff you might not have when the chips are down and survival is not just 'out there; in the bush post whatever disaster, it's also in the home when one can't afford to pay the service bills or buy food.

 

[neoaliphant]

it's also in the home when one can't afford to pay the service bills or buy food.

its similar to how a lot of people buy ready meals in supermarkets rather than ingredients.
out of the box thinking, can extend what you have. helps keep food bills down to £30 a week for 2 people.
Apart from the cat, cat has more expensive meals than we do sometimes...

ive seen amaerican prepper videos where theyve made their hosue off grid but they still rely on really expensive and complicated gas heating systems, bottled gas stoves etc. surely a good wood stove/oven would be better, can pop out for a walk scrounge for firewood, practice your firelighting skills while getting the fire up.

lots of bushcraft skills can be applied to daily life after all. one reason why the repair/firstaid parts of my survival kit tend to be used daily, so i suppose its more possibles kit than the sas suruvival kit.
but a bit like the sas tn, then pouch layered system, i have small pouches, then additional small pouches on belt or gathered in response pack, then a bit more in small backpack.

 

[neoaliphant]

Think this is that video.
As I mentioned up above the SAS survival kit from the book is not a tin. It is a pouch with a mess tin and other items.
#Mors Kochanski for all of the tagged videos.

Mors is a large billy pot sized non pocket kit
Loftys ones in the SAS is tabacoo tin, and also another upgrade that has an additional pouch version that has extra items like flares, food, mess tin. so yes he does have a tin version.

 

[Minotaur]

More often than not, when it is we may find ourselves in such a situation so as to be described as a survival situation we are most often not in possession of all our shiny gear, of which we have spent so much time imagining, considering and even training in the use of, to ask, could folk do as well without all the gear?

I think this is one of the things I am taking forward in that I am looking at my tins as EDC. What is in my pockets and my tin is the minimum I want to try and survive with. Trying to think about the PACE Method at all times.

For sure one one thing I have discovered of 'products' and yeah I have been a 'gear junkie' is that we may spend so much time in discovering and practising their use we might through ' tunnel vision; lose some useful creativity, as in what does nature provide than can do the same job, though perhaps more slowly, for to my understanding it's not kit that enables survival it's skills and perhaps, the ability to think outside of the 'product box'

Like I said, I used to be a 'gear junkie' until it was I met with ill health and extreme poverty to learn some very important lessons about 'gear' aka products, of which I could no longer afford, to find what pulled me through that poor situation was skills and skills learned through necessity not luxury.

I learnt this lesson early because I could not afford one of those £300 Goretex jackets so it taught me to read reviews (Often written by John Fenna ) and think about what I could afford. Then the stories of Goretex failing appeared and yes I have seen it fail however it does take some serous conditions. This lead me to Lightweight hiking which is a much more DIY environment.
One of the things driving my purchasing now is that a lot of products do not fit my requirements.

I am no longer where I was to amongst some other things be back here but my take home lesson from that experience was don't learn to rely on stuff you might not have when the chips are down and survival is not just 'out there; in the bush post whatever disaster, it's also in the home when one can't afford to pay the service bills or buy food.

I think the thing that all of these things should teach us is to prepare even if it is by learning. My argument for prepping was always taken from a blog poster who survived a year of unemployment because he had a year's worth of food to lean on. A girl called Jack has some interesting writings on budget conscious cooking.

Loftys ones in the SAS is tabacoo tin, and also another upgrade that has an additional pouch version that has extra items like flares, food, mess tin. so yes he does have a tin version.

Yep you are right it was weird to go back to a book I had spent so much time reading however have not really picked up in years. It was the bible for a while and then I discovered Ray's Survival Handbook. I was really surprised reading the kit list of the tin.
I think that was one of the things that hit home in that I would not base my kit around that list as it seems to be aimed at escape and evasion for a soldier. My kit now is based more on bushcraft in that I want a bushcraft edc tin so I would want some way to boil water even it only foil.

 

[neoaliphant]

I think the mors billy pot kit is more bushcraft
The SAS lofty tin was started as a military escape and evasion type tin.
and then Ryas possibles pouch is definitely bushcraft and every day use.

so many different types of kit
This book might help

 

[TeeDee]

To remind people the original opening question was:-

It made me think if there were any modern or improved items one would now include in the old SAS style Tobacco tin.ms

Would there be any improved or updated items one would now include. ? ( A little bit Boys Own maybe )

 

[Jared]

Couldn't actually remember the contents, and my SAS handbook went walkabout long time ago.

Here's Andy McNabs, of Bravo Two Zero's tin. Seems 50% cordage.

The art of staying alive: McNab's survival kit | National Army Museum

An SAS soldier's personal survival kit contains many everyday objects. These can be used in ingenious ways, demonstrating both the adaptability and the resourcefulness of the Special Forces.

www.nam.ac.uk

Think the two sliver looking bars are sterile disposable blood lancets? Not seen them in a tin kit before.
Nothing water filter/sterilisation related. IIRC from the book, he did drink contaminated water *, though don't think anything that fit in the tin could have prevented it.

As think said before, beef stock drink gets replaced with oral rehydration satchet.

P52 & hacksaw blade... replaced with a SAK Walker maybe? even without the scales, has to be a better option. Tweezers can stay in tin.

Piece of carborundum stone... diamond card or DMT keychain, flatter smaller.

Edit: * Chris Ryan drank the contaminated water whilst E&E.

 

[Minotaur]

To remind people the original opening question was:-

It made me think if there were any modern or improved items one would now include in the old SAS style Tobacco tin.ms

Would there be any improved or updated items one would now include. ? ( A little bit Boys Own maybe )

1986 wow how the world has changed. The AAA maglite came out the year after. Survival Weaponry and Techniques magazine was my favorite monthly read.

I think the Beta Light would get replaced with a LED torch.
Surgical Blades for a small skeleton fixed blade. It why the Harpoon become so popular.
Matches replaced by the baby bic.
Butterfly Sutures replaced by superglue.

A back up power battery and cable. (Going to add this to my Bushcraft kit)
Spare GPS batteries.

It strangely amazing what missing like no Duck tape?

The book really started the discussion on these kits however so much has changed between then and now. 4 years later we got Ray Mears' Survival Handbook and then 4 years later we got Tracks. I replaced my tin because I never used what was in it with a possibilities pouch due to those changes. Now I carry a paracord wrapped tin which is replicated by what I normally use and practice with.

 

[neoaliphant]

zip ties- i tend to use the lidl reuseable ones, they ahve a small lever to release

led lights, one of the biggest advances in 30 years, a huge range, some of the smallest are olight.
i wouldnt bother with maglite upgrade kits any more, possible the petzl emergency light, its small and head mountable.

containers, huge advances, and to be hoest i think tobacco tin is too small, perhaps it was used at the time as convenient and readily availble, but containers have moved on a lot.

for backup battery, i tend to use the batteries from an old laptop stripped apart and a small cable charger, i mentioend this in anotehr post, means i can fit about 7000mah and cables in to a bundle the size of a D cell battery. these would fit in a tabbaco tin but other things would be a priority

multi tools, another area of huge advancement.

medical supplies, i dont know enough about this area but i suspect theers some things that are marvelous, like quick clot or similar.
the zip stitch looks usefull and appropriate for a survival tin

i quite like the turbo flame lighters, but then thats because i tend to use them a lot for work along with hot glue sticks, in the function of mini blow torch.

 

[Bishop]

1986 wow how the world has changed

Oh I don't know, the evolution of survival kits can be traced back a fair ways. Of course every once in a while the Matrix glitches and history repeats itself.


UK comic "Bullet" issue #2 Fireball's survival guide 1976 previously posted by Alan 13~7 here



WWII RAF escape & evasion kit. circa 1944-5
Slightly larger than a tobacco tin, but does include silk bandanna map.

 

[Jared]

I think the Beta Light would get replaced with a LED torch.

I guess LED equivalent would be a finger light. Originally intended for pilots, but seem to get put it kits for others.

Finger Lights

Finger Lights. Read more

www.cejayengineering.com

 

[Minotaur]

containers, huge advances, and to be hoest i think tobacco tin is too small, perhaps it was used at the time as convenient and readily availble, but containers have moved on a lot.

LOL been watching a lot of childhood-ish tv lately and it is amazing how much people smoked. Watching JAG at the moment and the lead character always has a cigar in his mouth. MREs used to have cigarettes in them I seem to remember.
Anyway I think you are right on the money they were readily available to people at the time.

Oh I don't know, the evolution of survival kits can be traced back a fair ways. Of course every once in a while the Matrix glitches and history repeats itself.

I do not disagree that it would have been a plane thing to start with and then WW2 to soldiers however if there was evidence as far back as the Boar War I would not be surprised. For the general public it was that book that started it. I think before that it was more EDC in that you made sure to carry things. It was the scout thing in that you carried certain items. I feel sorry for poor Eddie McGee who does not even rate a Wikipedia entry however I cannot for the life of me remember if it in his books and I do not own them to check.

 

[MikeLA]

Eddie McGee started me off with his programmes and books. Remember trying to put everything into a matchbox as a kid.

Still think the tobacco tin is the right size, not going to leave it when it’s that small.

 

[Tengu]

I have one of those highlander tins, -they can be tricky to close, -but a baccy tin is hard to open with cold hands.

 

[neoaliphant]

Thats why trangia mess tin is great, its halfway between british army mess tin and a tobacco tin, and has fitting lid, just tape around and its sealed.

One of my clients helped form the SAS, ill ask him what he remembers from when they were formed.
apparently they used to steal most of their gear from other divisions, especially football tables and otehr entertainments.

 

[Tengu]

How are you going to get a football table in a baccy tin?

And what was in the WW2 one, anyway?