Sub Zero Crew (Fahrenheit not Centigrade)

[rik_uk3]

If younger or fitter I'd be well up to this, but talk of heated tent is a bare minimum backup. To contemplate less would be foolhardy to say the least IMHO.

Great idea and best of luck with the project.

 

[barryasmith]

Wayland, Great idea.

I did the BCUK arctic course in Norway last year and have done others. Its an amazing place and you meet amazing people.

I had the pleasure of meeting Chris the Cat and others last year and the idea of a meet up is great.

For me I need trips that dont cost the earth and a lower cost affair is attractive, I love foreswalkers idea of hiring a hall or similar and using that as a base and then making journeys out from there.

I wont be making any winter trips this winter as we have twins on the way and I need to be at home. The following year will see a resumption of my normal Arctic pilgrimage. I'll keep watching this one for the future.

Barry

 

[forestwalker]

I take your point about safety considerations. A heated tent would be ideal but that would be prohibitively expensive to bring in by air. One possibility would be a collective purchase with some kind of local storage. That adds a bunch of complications but could be an option for the future.

Well, I have the fabric, I just need to purchase a decent woodstove and start sewing. Then it would be mine, but I would bring it to any such event.

We could look into hiring some sort of cabin as an evacuation/drying area but I guess that would limit us on location to some degree.

Should not be too hard or expensive, but as you say a bit limiting.

As far as timing goes, a bunch of us, myself included, are heading out to Norway next March to learn and practice the sort of skills we need to do this. This coming Winter may appeal to some that already have the required experience but for the rest of us I think we would be looking towards the Winter of 2012/13

Ok, then we'll keep this on the back burner, I'll do some rought planning in the meantime, and report back here with my thoughts.

Do you -- collectively -- think that Jämtland area is "arctic" enough, or should I look into locations in the north?

 

[forestwalker]

If younger or fitter I'd be well up to this, but talk of heated tent is a bare minimum backup. To contemplate less would be foolhardy to say the least IMHO.

Great idea and best of luck with the project.

There are basically two ways to travel in winter. One is cold camps, which can b anything from the latest Hilleberg offering to a trench dug in the snow, and the other is hot camps, which means either a heated tent or a heated shelter of some sort. For heated tent there is two options, one is something like an old Swedish army 12 or 20 man tent and the matching woodstove, and the other is smaller heated tents.

The old army tent version is heavy and bulky (perhaps 20 kg of tent, plus the woodstove), but provides shelter for a smallish group. The other is more of a personal shelter (e.g. the tent used by RM i the Northern Wilderness series) but that could be used as an emergency shelter for a few more, or anyone in any danger of hypothermia.

The idea of a town hall is growing on me; a place to get kit sorted, leave "civilized" clothes behind and somewhere to return to before the end of The Event. But it would add one complication; people would need to arrive and depart at approximately the same time.

 

[ged]

Well, I have the fabric, I just need to purchase a decent woodstove and start sewing. Then it would be mine, but I would bring it to any such event.

Alternatively I have a group-sized tent which would probably do, although it's a long way from Sweden at the moment. I'd be happy to contribute to the cost of the stove.

Do you -- collectively -- think that Jämtland area is "arctic" enough, or should I look into locations in the north?

As far as I'm concerned it's perfect. What's the average altitude, about a kilometre?

Where are you approximately Forestwalker?

 

[forestwalker]

As far as I'm concerned it's perfect. What's the average altitude, about a kilometre?

Where are you approximately Forestwalker?

Hmm, find Östersund on a map of Sweden (it will be to the west of the middle on a N-S basis). Go east about halfway to the Baltic coast. Altitude here is not much, a few hundred meters or so. The mountains start west of Östersund. Right where I live it is fairly hilly, which is hard on skiers with packs and pulks, so I'll look around to find areas that is more easilly negotiable for new skiers.

 

[ged]

... I'll look around to find areas that is more easilly negotiable for new skiers.

This just gets better and better.

However...

The last time I did any cross-country skiing was in Sundsvall about eight years ago, and the last time I did any serious distances on skis (50km/day) was in California, and that was thirty years ago.

I don't even know exactly where my skis are.

You might need to be gentle with some of us when the time comes.

 

[Wayland]

And some of us have never skied in their lives...

 

[ged]

I love it! Where d'you get that from?!

 

[Retired Member southey]

I knocked up some tele skies last year from a set of 2009 season skis that handn't had binding fitted and a set of rottefella bindings, to use with my Alico boots, worked out £80, work really well trail breaking and not so wide as to plough up the louips(sp),

This was after spending a couple of months trying to find a set of pussers planks, its worth keeping an eye on local sport shops that sell skis to see what old stock can be had,

 

[Wayland]

I love it! Where d'you get that from?!

I collect smileys from all over the place, can't remember where I found that one.

Possibly the same place I found this...

 

[forestwalker]

Here -- as in my home area -- one could expect a series of hills, mostly quite steep and with a fair number of trees on it. Going up hill is hard work, going down hill can be scary. I'll try to find a flattish area we can play in.

As to skis we are talkign deep snow cross country skis. Swedish army surplus is good, Tegsnäs and Olskogen as well among the major brands. A fairly wide ski is aboslutely nessesary.

 

[Wayland]

How about snowshoes instead?

 

[Twodogs]

How about one of these no good for a large group though,
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320744626993&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

 

[Chris the Cat]

Tried two days snowshoeing in Kangos, loved it !
More of that would be great.
Chris.

 

[Grey Owl]

This sounds like a fantastic idea, even though getting over to Sweden would be a near impossibility for myself. However, I can offer up the entire North of Canada to folks that would like to venture in this direction.

From reading this thread I have noticed a trend of the concept of a Moot/Meet becoming a full-on winter trek. In my experience of leading winter trips here in Canada, one must be very careful when making this transition. For people with minimal cold weather experience, a basecamp with cold-camping can work. Once the idea moves towards moving camp, hauling pulks, learning to use skiis or even snowshoes, the exhaustion, frustration and danger levels climb very quickly. As a family we frequently take 4-6 day snowshoe treks in the winter with nighttime lows that meet the magic -40 mark. With foreplanning, comfort with the environment on our part, our 3 y.o. can hardly wait for winter to arrive. At these temperatures, the cold in-experienced often overheat when moving and become shivering damp bundles of misery in the evening. Simple mistakes are magnified immensely in the deep cold of a northern winter.

My suggestion would be to start with 2 nights of basecamp (with heated shelter) to ensure that everyone is physically comfortable with the transportation means, can thermoregulate effectively, perform camp tasks in cold/dark conditions, and is mentally prepared to step onto the trail. Then leave for the trekking portion once people are comfortable with their own skills and the abilities of those that might need to give/receive assistance. During the trek portion, it would be wise to maintain access to at least one warm shelter, allowing people to safely experiment with quinzhees, igloos, trenchs, or tarps.

Remember that very few people that live in the arctic environs would willingly spend time out on the land without access to warm shelter of some form.

Good luck as this idea gets developed, it sounds like a fantastic experience that I would love to join.

 

[forestwalker]

How about snowshoes instead?

Not used much here, but probably better for the hilly terrain here. I intend to finally get a pair made before this winter hits in earnest.

 

[forestwalker]

This sounds like a fantastic idea, even though getting over to Sweden would be a near impossibility for myself. However, I can offer up the entire North of Canada to folks that would like to venture in this direction.

From reading this thread I have noticed a trend of the concept of a Moot/Meet becoming a full-on winter trek. In my experience of leading winter trips here in Canada, one must be very careful when making this transition. For people with minimal cold weather experience, a basecamp with cold-camping can work. Once the idea moves towards moving camp, hauling pulks, learning to use skiis or even snowshoes, the exhaustion, frustration and danger levels climb very quickly. As a family we frequently take 4-6 day snowshoe treks in the winter with nighttime lows that meet the magic -40 mark. With foreplanning, comfort with the environment on our part, our 3 y.o. can hardly wait for winter to arrive. At these temperatures, the cold in-experienced often overheat when moving and become shivering damp bundles of misery in the evening. Simple mistakes are magnified immensely in the deep cold of a northern winter.

I agree. My "plan" (to glorify idle thoughts on the subject) is to have a base camp area perhaps a few km at most from the jump off point, and then people could test different shelters, play in the snow, day-trip, etc. I also think that the minimal qualiofications for participation would be "have you actually spent at least 24 hours and slept one night in -20 C or colder?". Without that we are taling about running a proper course, with backup, evacuation plans, etc.

My suggestion would be to start with 2 nights of basecamp (with heated shelter) to ensure that everyone is physically comfortable with the transportation means, can thermoregulate effectively, perform camp tasks in cold/dark conditions, and is mentally prepared to step onto the trail. Then leave for the trekking portion once people are comfortable with their own skills and the abilities of those that might need to give/receive assistance. During the trek portion, it would be wise to maintain access to at least one warm shelter, allowing people to safely experiment with quinzhees, igloos, trenchs, or tarps.

Good idea. One could either do this, or just plan on a subset of people to go off for a day or three and then return to the base camp.

Remember that very few people that live in the arctic environs would willingly spend time out on the land without access to warm shelter of some form.

The problem is that it is fairly easy to do cold camps for a few days, but once yopu are going to set up a hot camp kit money starts flowing, in particular if it has to the transported by air.

 

[Greg]

Where did you get the Alico's Southey I've been looking all over for them or were you issued them and told the SQMS you lost them!

 

[Retired Member southey]

Where did you get the Alico's Southey I've been looking all over for them or were you issued them and told the SQMS you lost them!

I never lost nufinck! had the pleasure of having my entire 1033 written off when clearing , I have seen them for sale a surplus shops, and some web sites as tug off war boots,

look here DAS (not used my self so cant recommend)

Remember you shoe sizing though, two pairs of thick woollen socks in there with your feet, and tonnes of breaking in!!