Strange artifact
- Thread starter Oblio13
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Chariots of the gods man, send it to Von Danekin to sort out or it could be an ink well and pen holder.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
I wish I had come up with the fishing net theory because that was smart, but now I would have to go with something else. Maybe it has something to do with textile crafts - making cord, braids or a portable weaving device. I obviously have no real clue but it would be interesting to know.
I wish I had come up with the fishing net theory because that was smart, but now I would have to go with something else. Maybe it has something to do with textile crafts - making cord, braids or a portable weaving device. I obviously have no real clue but it would be interesting to know.
I don't think ink because to make ink there's a metallic additive. Usually iron or copper. Both chemically 'stain', i.e. bind to the stone. This stone isn't marked in this way.
Most fishing net weights are relatively simple, with a groove of some kind that allows a rope to be knotted securely around it.
Like this.....
http://dirtyrockhounds.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=artifacts1&action=display&thread=3235
or with a hole that serves the same purpose, such as these ones.....
http://www.finds.org.uk/database/search/results/material/2/page/12
http://www.johnhextfremlin.com/A stone age find by JHF.htm
We do know of carefully grooved sinkers (I think the Americans call them plummets ? ) that are attached to lines for fishing too.
Short article here.....
http://www.jstor.org/pss/278523
and there are the beautifully worked sinkers (showing that they are not necessarily crude things) such as these from haematite.....
http://www.lithiccastinglab.com/gallery-pages/2007augustplummetspage2.htm
generally safe to claim that all 'plummets' are teardrop shaped though.
A lamp is basically a reservoir with an orifice that supports a wick. I don't think that's likely simply because of the size of the piece. Four or five wicks would need a lot of refilling.
The fact that the holes connect suggests somekind of threading, but the stone shows no wear patterns from ropes rubbing. If it were for threading, then I would think 'tied' more like a button....but why go to all the effort to keep the base in one piece ?
We split materials like willow and sinew, but why the ornate grooving ? and those are generally more like a simplified lemon squeezer; they're called brakes if anyone's looking for them
There are small dishes with loops on the inside base that are intended to wet flax fibres of a roving before they are spun. I don't know what fibres were used in the area this artifact was found.....but why five holes ?
I suppose it 'could' be a cordage winder. Thread four lines in and spin while pulling one out ? We'd use a 'crown' for that though and again it's more like a simplified grooved lemon squeezer, sort of, think sized up.
Basically, I don't know.
I suspect it's too big to be a personal adornment. I think it's too small for a multiwicked lamp. I don't think it's ink because there's no chemical staining. That it was found in water generally would indicate that it was somehow connected to fishing or..... you guessed it Ritual depostion
Someone must know, surely ?,
atb
M
Most fishing net weights are relatively simple, with a groove of some kind that allows a rope to be knotted securely around it.
Like this.....
http://dirtyrockhounds.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=artifacts1&action=display&thread=3235
or with a hole that serves the same purpose, such as these ones.....
http://www.finds.org.uk/database/search/results/material/2/page/12
http://www.johnhextfremlin.com/A stone age find by JHF.htm
We do know of carefully grooved sinkers (I think the Americans call them plummets ? ) that are attached to lines for fishing too.
Short article here.....
http://www.jstor.org/pss/278523
and there are the beautifully worked sinkers (showing that they are not necessarily crude things) such as these from haematite.....
http://www.lithiccastinglab.com/gallery-pages/2007augustplummetspage2.htm
generally safe to claim that all 'plummets' are teardrop shaped though.
A lamp is basically a reservoir with an orifice that supports a wick. I don't think that's likely simply because of the size of the piece. Four or five wicks would need a lot of refilling.
The fact that the holes connect suggests somekind of threading, but the stone shows no wear patterns from ropes rubbing. If it were for threading, then I would think 'tied' more like a button....but why go to all the effort to keep the base in one piece ?
We split materials like willow and sinew, but why the ornate grooving ? and those are generally more like a simplified lemon squeezer; they're called brakes if anyone's looking for them
There are small dishes with loops on the inside base that are intended to wet flax fibres of a roving before they are spun. I don't know what fibres were used in the area this artifact was found.....but why five holes ?
I suppose it 'could' be a cordage winder. Thread four lines in and spin while pulling one out ? We'd use a 'crown' for that though and again it's more like a simplified grooved lemon squeezer, sort of, think sized up.
Basically, I don't know.
I suspect it's too big to be a personal adornment. I think it's too small for a multiwicked lamp. I don't think it's ink because there's no chemical staining. That it was found in water generally would indicate that it was somehow connected to fishing or..... you guessed it
Ritual depostion Someone must know, surely ?,
atb
M
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rancid badger
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Could it possibly be a mace or war hammer head?
regardless, I truly feel you should make an accurate record of where it was found and take it to be identified by "experts".
It may be something of no scientific or spiritual interest or indeed, value but it just might be something important.
kind regards
R.B.
regardless, I truly feel you should make an accurate record of where it was found and take it to be identified by "experts".
It may be something of no scientific or spiritual interest or indeed, value but it just might be something important.
kind regards
R.B.
I too was thinking weight of some sort, but along the lines of a Laavu type shelter covering hold down mechanism. Cordage arranged sort of net fashioned with weights at perhaps the four corners. used in a parachute fashion draped over the canvas or skin walls of the shelter to hold down the covering in windy conditions perhaps
E
ex member coconino
Guest
Tobacco pipe with four stems for four friends to smoke at once?
The top-right hole looks like it has a screw thread in it, or at least marks from a drill. The straight grooves look functional rather than decorative, like they're designed to help binding stay in place, like thongs or cord.
What does the underside look like? At what angles are the holes bored and are they all the same angle?
What a conundrum!
The top-right hole looks like it has a screw thread in it, or at least marks from a drill. The straight grooves look functional rather than decorative, like they're designed to help binding stay in place, like thongs or cord.
What does the underside look like? At what angles are the holes bored and are they all the same angle?
What a conundrum!
.......is it just me, or does it somehow mind others of the carved granite flower holders set beside gravestones ?
M
M
Would it be possible to post a picture of the back and side with a scale ruler in it please?
I studied pre-historic archaeology and I don't recognise is as comparing to anything here. It may also be all that remains of the artefact, the rest of the item may well have decompsed or broken off, especially it the rest of it was an organic material.
If your happy for me to do so I could email the picture to some of my old colleagues who still work in the industry. I would love to be able to give it a non-ritual identity as it always seemed to be the answer to 'we don't know what it would be for - it must be ritual'
Cheers
Rich
I studied pre-historic archaeology and I don't recognise is as comparing to anything here. It may also be all that remains of the artefact, the rest of the item may well have decompsed or broken off, especially it the rest of it was an organic material.
If your happy for me to do so I could email the picture to some of my old colleagues who still work in the industry. I would love to be able to give it a non-ritual identity as it always seemed to be the answer to 'we don't know what it would be for - it must be ritual'
Cheers
Rich
One thing that no one has mentioned (unless i missed it) is around the central hole there are lines, but only on 3 out of the 4 sides. Could this suggest a preferred side, either sitting verticall or on its back?
The other thing I notice is that it can't have been the water that long or it was in a sheltered spot in the river. The corners do look worn but the lines are still visble. Im not sure on time scales but could suggest it was deposited not too long ago.
Where in the river was it found? In a spot where there is low flow or a place where it would dry up at times of the year?
I like Mary's idea of it being for twisting cordage. But if that is the case, it doesn't look well used or ergonomic but then again that could have been eroded over time.
As for the ritual idea, lets get the time team in and we will find our ancient Ritual Site.
The other thing I notice is that it can't have been the water that long or it was in a sheltered spot in the river. The corners do look worn but the lines are still visble. Im not sure on time scales but could suggest it was deposited not too long ago.
Where in the river was it found? In a spot where there is low flow or a place where it would dry up at times of the year?
I like Mary's idea of it being for twisting cordage. But if that is the case, it doesn't look well used or ergonomic but then again that could have been eroded over time.
As for the ritual idea, lets get the time team in and we will find our ancient Ritual Site.
Hi Oblio13.
Is that a 1 cent coin? It looks about the same size as a British 1p. If so, the object is about 2" wide. Is that right?
It looks to be of granite... perhaps not! If it is an indigenous artifact though, the material it's made from tells its own story with regard to geological origin and possible trading connections.
From our cultural mind-set of consumer-materialism, we tend to assume that an object of common usage, and as disposable/dispensable as a fishing weight, would be roughed out from any suitable materials found in the immediate area. That is a Survivalist view of existence based on an assumption of Primitiveness.
In reality, we are often astounded at the craftsmanship, care and attention to detail put into objects of common use. This is possibly due to the reverence bestowed on prey species by a hunter society, which in turn personifies "tools of the trade". (Try picking up a carpenter's chisel to sharpen your pencil and see what his response is!) It may be this lack of understanding which has led to unidentified artifacts being labelled as "of ritual significance" when in reality, what we see as "ritual" pervaded life as part of the day-to-day thanksgiving to the world around for providing for the family.
I'm surprised no-one has suggested sending that photo to a museum for identification. They've either seen one before or they haven't.
Then again... maybe it's an incense burner from the local Hippy shop!
Cheers,
Is that a 1 cent coin? It looks about the same size as a British 1p. If so, the object is about 2" wide. Is that right?
It looks to be of granite... perhaps not! If it is an indigenous artifact though, the material it's made from tells its own story with regard to geological origin and possible trading connections.
From our cultural mind-set of consumer-materialism, we tend to assume that an object of common usage, and as disposable/dispensable as a fishing weight, would be roughed out from any suitable materials found in the immediate area. That is a Survivalist view of existence based on an assumption of Primitiveness.
In reality, we are often astounded at the craftsmanship, care and attention to detail put into objects of common use. This is possibly due to the reverence bestowed on prey species by a hunter society, which in turn personifies "tools of the trade". (Try picking up a carpenter's chisel to sharpen your pencil and see what his response is!) It may be this lack of understanding which has led to unidentified artifacts being labelled as "of ritual significance" when in reality, what we see as "ritual" pervaded life as part of the day-to-day thanksgiving to the world around for providing for the family.
I'm surprised no-one has suggested sending that photo to a museum for identification. They've either seen one before or they haven't.
Then again... maybe it's an incense burner from the local Hippy shop!
Cheers,
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Biker
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Given the large hole in the centre and the smaller holes on the outside I'd say it was early pre-industrial age Lynx effect stove.
Nice looking object nonetheless. Thanks for showing it
Nice looking object nonetheless. Thanks for showing it
Looks like an insulator to me. Any transmission lines, railways or telephone/telegraph lines thereabouts?
Very cool piece of stone.. looking at it makes me see the grooves as paths for rope to grip too...
The center hole seems worn on one corner making me think it has been used alot and not been chipped from impact. Its gotta be rope related look at it!
The center hole seems worn on one corner making me think it has been used alot and not been chipped from impact. Its gotta be rope related look at it!
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