Stove Fuels

[gliderrider]

Does anyone know of anywhere there are compartive figures for the amount of CO2 that the varius fuels produce?

I regularly use a BCB Crusader stove with Hexi Blocks(Nasty Stuff), Meths or Green fuel gel sachets, and a Jetboil PCS uing Butane/Isobutane gas cartridges, but I cant find any figures on which is the more polluting.

This is more an academic excersise, as I will still tailer my kit to the situation I expect to face rather than any pollution I would like to avoid.

Cheers
Syd

 

[rik_uk3]

Its not as simple as that, emissions vary from stove to stove dependant on things like design of the burner, pot used and efficiency of combustion. Rule of thumb, in an enclosed area make sure its ventilated.

 

[santaman2000]

CO2 (carbon dioxide)? I thought the product of combustion was CO (carbon monoxide)

 

[gliderrider]

Yes, Deffinatly use stoves in a well ventilated area. Hexi blocks & solid fire lighters can fill a patrol tent with thick smoke & fumes within minutes.

 

[BillyBlade]

Ah, hexi telly...anyone else had that?

 

[Martyn]

CO2 (carbon dioxide)? I thought the product of combustion was CO (carbon monoxide)

Products of complete carbon fuel combustion are heat, carbon dioxide and water, when combustion is incomplete, such as a smouldering fire or an inefficient burner, then CO2 is reduced to CO. Few fires or stoves are completely efficient so they pretty much all make some CO. How much depends on a variety of factors, as Rik says - burner design, pot used, fuel type, available oxygen etc.

 

[johnboy]

Does anyone know of anywhere there are compartive figures for the amount of CO2 that the varius fuels produce?I regularly use a BCB Crusader stove with Hexi Blocks(Nasty Stuff), Meths or Green fuel gel sachets, and a Jetboil PCS uing Butane/Isobutane gas cartridges, but I cant find any figures on which is the more polluting.This is more an academic excersise, as I will still tailer my kit to the situation I expect to face rather than any pollution I would like to avoid.CheersSyd

Of the choices you have listed the Jetboil with a I3BP mix is likely to be the most efficient stove at converting the potential heat energy of the fuel into actual heat energy you can use.

It's also likely to be the most clean burning.
One of the reasons for this is that it combustion (given sufficient oxygen) is the most controled and the interface between the flame and the cooking vessel is also controlled.

Both Rik and Martyn are correct in that there are quite a lot of variables to consider. If you were truly looking at the environmental impact of stove fuels you would also need to look at the production process of the fuel as well. The consumer burning the fuel is the end of a long production chain that also has environmental impact...

 

[Martyn]

It's a shame Hydrogen is so explosive and so expensive, it's the most abundant element in the known universe and only produces water when it burns.

If someone can find a cheap, easy and safe way of splitting H2O into HH + O we would have an almost limitless supply of completely clean fuel.

 

[gliderrider]

Isnt there a town in the U.S that uses hydrogen powered golf carts, almost exclusivly? I seem to remember a tomorows world.

Tangents aside, I asumed that Propane and Butane stoves had a bigger Carbon footprint as the process that makes the cannisters is rather high, but as they are more Thermically efficent this is offset somewhat, where as the Meths type fuels have a less complicated production, but the stoves are less thermically efficent so you need to burn more for longer to boil the same water in the same environment.

 

[PDA1]

If combustion is complete to CO2 and H2O, then 64 g of methanol will produce 88 g of CO2, and 58g of butane produces 176 g CO2. However, the thermal efficiency of butane is 2 x that of methanol, so for equally efficient stoves (a big if factor) 29 g of butane would be used to produce the same amount of heat as 64 g of methanol, producing (butane) 86.5g CO2 and (methanol) 88g CO2.
So, per pot boiled, the amount of CO2 produced is pretty much the same, whatever fuel is used (wood excepted).

p.s. Calculated from stoicheometric weights, and this energy density table
http://everything2.com/title/energy+density

Now my brain hurts.

 

[gliderrider]

So carbon footprint aside, Gas Am teh best!

 

[gliderrider]

Thanks PDA1.

 

[rik_uk3]

So carbon footprint aside, Gas Am the best!

Depends on things like weather also, Butane is crap in cool weather, Propane is better, Butane, Propane, Isobutane mix works best in the cold, naptha and paraffin/kerosene stoves work in freezing cold weather (paraffin still used in Antarctica). Then again you go back to stove design and pan design. Burner design varies a lot, small burners gives out less than half the heat of better burners and you can get heat efficient pans as in the Primus ETA range with 'fins' fitted around the bottom which cuts down boil times/fuel by up to 50% (nearer 35% in my tests). Use a narrow pan on a stove going flat out and you loose a lot of heat up the sides so a broader standard pan will boil faster and don't forget to use a lid.

http://www.optimusstoves.com/seen/technical-support/faq/fuel-faq/#c770

http://www.facewest.co.uk/Primus-EtaPower-Pots.html

 

[ateallthepies]

PDA1, With regards your figures, I see that the CO2 produced weighs more than the fuel it comes from? Is this possible?

Steve.

 

[johnboy]

PDA1, With regards your figures, I see that the CO2 produced weighs more than the fuel it comes from? Is this possible?Steve.

Here read this...

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/co2.shtml

HTH

 

[ateallthepies]

Thanks for the link, makes sense now.

Steve.

 

[Martyn]

So carbon footprint aside, Gas Am teh best!

No, petrol is.

 

[rik_uk3]

No, petrol is.

If you want to clog your stove its superb, clean naptha,alkylate petrol or paraffin/kerosene is cleaner burning

Don't worry about your environmental impact, cut back your driving a few miles a week if you really think burning your camp stove is messing up the planet.

 

[gliderrider]

Cutt down on driving? Wish I could, I'm car-less(by design).

Where do you get clean naptha and alkylate petrol fuels for petrol stoves? I've only ever seen a few different meths/ Parrafin fuels in camping shops. Not that I've been looking too closely, an MSR duel fuel is somthing I've had my eye on for quite a while, but using the logic that it never gets too cold, or too high in derbyshire for a gas stove to take more than a few minites, I've put of buying one.

 

[ged]

Where do you get clean naptha and alkylate petrol fuels for petrol stoves? I've only ever seen a few different meths/ Parrafin fuels in camping shops. Not that I've been looking too closely, an MSR duel fuel is somthing I've had my eye on for quite a while, but using the logic that it never gets too cold, or too high in derbyshire for a gas stove to take more than a few minites, I've put of buying one.

It took me ages to find somewhere that sells it. You can get it by the gallon from a garden machinery place in Sheffield, give me a couple of days and I'll remember the name of it. Or if you just want a small quantity I can let you have some at cost. Think of it as a Group Buy.

Or you can just dunk your gas bottle in warm water. :yikes: