Stove Fuels

[Martyn]

Cutt down on driving? Wish I could, I'm car-less(by design).

Where do you get clean naptha and alkylate petrol fuels for petrol stoves? I've only ever seen a few different meths/ Parrafin fuels in camping shops. Not that I've been looking too closely, an MSR duel fuel is somthing I've had my eye on for quite a while, but using the logic that it never gets too cold, or too high in derbyshire for a gas stove to take more than a few minites, I've put of buying one.

Most camping shops sell "white gas" or Coleman fuel, which is just a clean petrol/naptha, or try and find panel wipe, same thing but a lot cheaper.

Point being, that in terms of calories per gram, the order is petrol, paraffin, gas then meths. Petrol and paraffin stoves are heavier and require additional equipment, like pumps and wotnot, but eventually the higher calories/gram of the fuel, mean that it becomes the lightest option to carry - though that is not the case if you are only camping for a couple of nights.

 

[Ichneumon]

Or you can just dunk your gas bottle in warm water.

There's a hole in my bucket,
dear Liza, dear Liza

 

[gliderrider]

Ged, I might have to take you up onthat(the link that is) as I said, When I have a spair few quid I might just get a liquid fuel stove.

 

[rik_uk3]

Most camping shops sell "white gas" or Coleman fuel, which is just a clean petrol/naptha, or try and find panel wipe, same thing but a lot cheaper.

Point being, that in terms of calories per gram, the order is petrol, paraffin, gas then meths. Petrol and paraffin stoves are heavier and require additional equipment, like pumps and wotnot, but eventually the higher calories/gram of the fuel, mean that it becomes the lightest option to carry - though that is not the case if you are only camping for a couple of nights.

Don't need pumps with 8's and 123 type stoves

Coleman fuel has come down in price in the UK this last year, from £4 a litre up. Even at £6 a litre that makes it a cheap cooking option compared to small gas stoves.

Even better price here
http://www.outdoor-ranger.co.uk/coleman-liquid-fuel-p-12060.html?currency=GBP&language=gb

Its now much the same price as Panel wipe (bloody expensive at my local supplier) or Aspen 4T.

 

[Martyn]

Don't need pumps with 8's and 123 type stoves

Even without a pump, a SVEA 123 is still half a kilo heavier than an Optimus crux though Rik (it's also 100g heavier than an Optimus Nova including pump). Even with the calorific advantage of petrol over gas, it'll take quite some time before you've offset that weight. You'd need to be using it for weeks before it becomes the lightweight option.

 

[BillyBlade]

I've been using that cheapy 'burn anything' liquid fuel stove I got from fleabay, the chinese copy one, a huge amount lately since I got it, running it on BPs finest unleaded. I go a walk in the woods that are next to me most every weekday after work, and it lives in my daysack so I can have a cuppa when I'm out. It has also coped with my overnighters that happen once a forntnight or so.

Seems to be very resistant to sooting up/clogging up so far. Maybe that dodgy chinese build quality comes in handy sometimes after all!

 

[Martyn]

The AK47 of petrol stoves?

 

[johnboy]

The AK47 of petrol stoves?

No that's probably the old MSR XGK..... ( or maybe thats the SKS) TBH my experience with running unleaded is if it's an older stove design like 123's and the 111 Coleman Model 400's then it's not a good idea...

With a more 'modern' stove design especially one designed for use in adverse conditions they tend to be designed to be field serviceable and have cleaning features built in... Shaker jet, cleaning wire in the feed tube etc... So you can mitigate the 'evils' of unleaded..

The 'Chinese' MF is a copy of the Kovea Booster 1 IIRC which borrowed a few features from MSR and some of the other manufacturers....

 

[PDA1]

Optumus crux with EMPTY cartridge either 170 or 220 grams. SVEA 123 480 grams, So not 500 grams heavier.
When I'm out in -10 to -20 (frequent in winter in this part of the world) The SVEA will work. The Oprtimus crux won't - moral, saving weight won't save your life, the SVEA wil (or other white gas, petrol stove. Cartridge stoves are good for summer, but then I find my alcohol system even lighter (about 120 grams with pot and fuel for 2 days, extra days at about 60 grams per day).
There is no "best" fuel. It depends on circumstances, car camping v backpacking, warm weather v freezing

 

[rik_uk3]

Even without a pump, a SVEA 123 is still half a kilo heavier than an Optimus crux though Rik (it's also 100g heavier than an Optimus Nova including pump). Even with the calorific advantage of petrol over gas, it'll take quite some time before you've offset that weight. You'd need to be using it for weeks before it becomes the lightweight option.

Depends if you can pack an extra 100g or so and not worry. The XGK is very good as is the Omnifuel but to be honest my favourite at the moment is the Nova. That view changes daily though but as neither your or I are back packers its all academic is it not.

 

[ateallthepies]

Before I retreat to my lab... erm shed....tomorrow and mix some meths and paraffin hoping to get the best of both out of an alcohol stove, is it worth proceeding with this new wonder fuel??

Steve

 

[gliderrider]

Better still, mix the meths, parafin and distil it even further.....Or dont, no, you really shouldnt.

 

[johnboy]

Before I retreat to my lab... erm shed....tomorrow and mix some meths and paraffin hoping to get the best of both out of an alcohol stove, is it worth proceeding with this new wonder fuel?? Steve

Ho ho 100 ++ years of petroleum distillation and an oil industry V man in shed....I think you'll end up with a 'fuel' that is less clean burning than Meths's but doesn't release the full potential of the kerosene especially if you try an burn it in an unpressurized trangia type burner.. Running it in an Optimus 111T might be an option however after a good preheat....

 

[Martyn]

Optumus crux with EMPTY cartridge either 170 or 220 grams. SVEA 123 480 grams, So not 500 grams heavier.

OK, 300g heavier - how efficient is the SVEA compared to the crux? How much more calorific is petrol compared to gas? That 300g weight penalty is very nearly a 220 size gas cannister - free - before even considering the calorific values of petrol v gas. Aside from your altitude/bad weather scenario, the SVEA is anything but a lightweight option when compared to the crux - unless you are out for weeks. By all means use it if you like it, but no amount of like will make it lighter.

I have 2x SVEA 123's BTW, one with a SIGG tourist cookset and one with the standard solo setup - I love them both. I also have an Optimus crux, an Optimus nova, a jetboil, several primus paraffin stoves and countless others. There are pros and cons to em all and I have favourites and not so favourites, but weight is weight. No matter which I like best, as a rule of thumb, the lightest options are meths for up to about 3 days, then gas for up to about 3 weeks, then petrol/paraffin for longer. There are other factors to consider, including weather, altitude, efficiency, convenience, personal preference etc, but the baseline numbers for the relative calorific properties of different fuels remains as is.

 

[Martyn]

Depends if you can pack an extra 100g or so and not worry. The XGK is very good as is the Omnifuel but to be honest my favourite at the moment is the Nova. That view changes daily though but as neither your or I are back packers its all academic is it not.

Indeed it is, but a discussion on the relative merits of fuel types, is also academic is it not? It may be academic, but I know that if you are carrying your stuff on your back for any distance at all, then every gram counts. You and I may be back garden bushcrafters Rik, and possibly a large number of others too, but if you are discussing the merits of fuels, you have to consider the possibility that at least some people will be interested because they have to carry it.

 

[PDA1]

Martyn - You have struck the crux of the matter ;-) weight matters. Even more so to the backpacker. That is why I highlighted my Supercat alcohol set-up, which for weight and volume is the lightest for my usual weekend trips. The fact that it only cost me less than USD 5 brings yet another consideration as to which is "best" . Come January/Feb I will be able to test alcohol v Coleman fuel with my asaklitt type alcohol stove v the 123. We know that a gas canister stove would be very difficult to use in those conditions. Both will be near the car as I only have a three season tent and wouldn't trust it at high elevation in the White Mountains in winter. Another factor not considered so far in this discussion is size of party. Alcohol stoves may be really good for a solo backpacker, but unless you have one of those marine monstrosities with multiple burners, not much good for large parties.

 

[Martyn]

Agreed, but with regard to gas, dont forget you can get mixes which are optimised for cold weather use and also most remote cannister stoves (MSR Windpro etc), allow the cannister to be inverted.

 

[PDA1]

I just checked, and propane has a boiling point of -42, so would be OK even around here. Come to think, most canister stoves I see in the local stores use propane canisters. Now, where can I get a Crux or similar for less than USD 20? OK, so I'm cheap

 

[rik_uk3]

Indeed it is, but a discussion on the relative merits of fuel types, is also academic is it not? It may be academic, but I know that if you are carrying your stuff on your back for any distance at all, then every gram counts. You and I may be back garden bushcrafters Rik, and possibly a large number of others too, but if you are discussing the merits of fuels, you have to consider the possibility that at least some people will be interested because they have to carry it.

Nope, apart from testing stoves in the garden (very rare these days) I go camping Considering the amount of old heavy kit carried by many here would a couple of hundred grammes matter lol.

Somebody mentioned a cheap Crux? An affordable alternative is:-

One of these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Portable-...amping_CookingSupplies_ET&hash=item1c1b14b52c

and one of these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PHOENIX-H...084?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1c1b14c05c

Will give much the same performance as the Jetboil but costs £25 - $37 for both delivered and a good budget for those who can't afford or are not prepared to buy the JB.

As I mentioned earlier, its worth getting the propane/butane/isobutane cans of gas, same price but better performance.

 

[Martyn]

Nope, apart from testing stoves in the garden (very rare these days) I go camping Considering the amount of old heavy kit carried by many here would a couple of hundred grammes matter lol.

You seriously think people carry that stuff any distance do you?