Snowmegadon UK?

[Paul_B]

The Michelin cross season + are officially all season or summer tyres with wet weather and some snow performance. However they have the 3 mountain and snowflake symbol too. AFAIK that places them in the winter tyre category but every write up and review puts them as summer tyres.

Looking at reviews the performance in the dry, wet, cold and snow are right up with best tyres suitable for each. They came second in a review of the best winter tyres from the big tyre manufacturers despite being one of two all season hybrid tyres reviewed to compare The testers / reviewers actually noted that it behaved as a winter tyre on snow but summer tyre at other times. Wet surface was among the best, snow performance (about 3 or 4 tests on snow) came out as second or on snow cornering it came out first iirc. That's better than any of the true winter tyres.

I guess that is why it got the snowflake and 3 mountain rating symbols.

 

[Darryl of Sussex]

The Michelin cross season + are officially all season or summer tyres with wet weather and some snow performance. However they have the 3 mountain and snowflake symbol too. AFAIK that places them in the winter tyre category but every write up and review puts them as summer tyres.

Looking at reviews the performance in the dry, wet, cold and snow are right up with best tyres suitable for each. They came second in a review of the best winter tyres from the big tyre manufacturers despite being one of two all season hybrid tyres reviewed to compare The testers / reviewers actually noted that it behaved as a winter tyre on snow but summer tyre at other times. Wet surface was among the best, snow performance (about 3 or 4 tests on snow) came out as second or on snow cornering it came out first iirc. That's better than any of the true winter tyres.

I guess that is why it got the snowflake and 3 mountain rating symbols.

Which car do you plan to put these on?


“In my thoughts I have seen rings of smoke through the trees”

 

[Janne]

AutoExpress rated the Conti All Season Contact higher.

( point is - ’best’ depends on who tested it. The top tyres are very very similar.)
The Michelin is a summer biased tyre.

Edit: in the largest test in Sweden, of the friction tyres ( winter biased) the Continental ContiVikingContact 7 was the highest rated by far.
All Scandi tests point out that if you are driving on sub zero temperatures, the allround tyres are far inferior to pure winter tyres. Most tests warn against buying them even!
It has to do with the compound. No such compound that behaves in all tempetatures has been invented yet.

 

[Janne]

I am not bring nasty.
The European testing grounds for winter are in Sweden. Outside Älvsbyn and in Arvidsjaur.
In Arvidsjaur most European also wintertest their cars during development. Forein cars to be sold on the European market are also mainly tested there.

 

[Tony]

We had a great weekend in Wiltshire, Near Cherhill, walked over the top of the white horse and other places, the countryside was white as far as I could see, beautiful. Managed to get into snow up to my middle at one point which was cool, especially in my shorts.
kids loved it, I only fell on my bum a couple of times!
Come back to Wales and not a sign of the white stuff, I think the WinterMoot is going to be warm and calm weathered!

My mate trying to get over to me

 

[Paul_B]

It was in Sweden the tyre testing was carried out that I saw in a review.

In use I haven't the experience you have that's for sure. I have very little to go on. First off is the rating which AFAIK if it's got a snowflake symbol with a 3 mountain peak symbol then it means a minimum performance standard has been reached.

Second is the reviews. The Michelin tyres aren't the best snow tyres they're the best all season that's rated for snow.

Third is the use. It's the UK and we really don't go out somewhere that we expect to encounter difficult driving. It's a stay at or near home day if that's the case. The only time we get caught out needing snow tyres is at most once a year, if that. By needing I mean actually on snow and/or ice. We manage to get home safely every time. HOW? A mix of not that bad, cautious driving and the fact the bad patches have been short stretches of minor road, the main roads are clear. Only once we got caught out when Cumbria got completely overloaded and couldn't cope with the amount of snow falling. That time my Astra car had no problems despite having summer tyres, I just took 3 times longer to get through.

I'm fortunate because I can get into work by train very easily if our short road is dodgy. Once out of our road it's a bus route all the way to my work. They're cleared and iced before I get up. I can think of one year when it was actually better to avoid driving in 15 + years living here. Benefits of UK, West Coast living, mild and wet instead of cold, snowy and icy.

Total number of times we've needed winter tyres are so few that we talk about them as an exciting memory. We can remember them individually.

Personally we're due a tyre change (about 2.5 to 3mm tread on the worst, front tyres), and we've got at most another 2 months with a risk of another "winter" spell that could see us needing winter tyres. One of the best all season with winter rating tyres is good enough. Then we'll probably sell the car in the summer. I've not had the connection with it that I've had with my other cars. It's like it's not worked out for me. I think it's like the feedback isn't there or I can't feel it. Perhaps that's the esp and driver aids. It's taking something away. It's my first car with any kind of driver aid.

PS I can't remember the magazine review but the proving ground was in the far north of Sweden where motor and tyre manufacturers test their cars and I think they used the test centre there to test and rate the tyres on performance across a big list of criteria. Although I do not think they tested dry conditions up there somehow.

 

[Paul_B]

Which car do you plan to put these on?


“In my thoughts I have seen rings of smoke through the trees”

It's a seat Altea xl. Although I might consider something similar for the next vehicle too which might be a van (transit custom or vivaro or trafic I think).

 

[Janne]

Yes, that testing you mention is in Arvidsjaur.
I spent 3 years at the regiment there. The test people lived in Hotel Laponia. The females thought we were very ‘interesting’.

We saw loads of new models of vehicled before official publicity, but we all kept quiet, and no photos were ever taken.

I do not think you need to buy an all round tyre now, go for a quality summer tyre. Surely you do not expect more snow? Soon the flowers will emerge!


Besides, a brand new summer tyre is better winter time than a worn out winter tyre.

 

[Paul_B]

Yes but then these all season ones are better in the wet than a lot of funny summer tyres. With UK summers that's a good thing. With the mileage we do a year tyres seem to last a couple of years. The ones I'm looking at are as good as the ones I've got in the past, actually a lot better. They'll certainly still be good for when I sell the car on this year.

Winter is supposed to be coming back again shortly. If you ignore the express stories and look at the number of other news sites claiming winter coming back you'll see some outlets not prone to hyperbole, like the express is, saying the cold UK weather is coming back.

 

[Janne]

if it is the same system expected as in Scandinavia - yes.

I find the Tires.com site excellent for giving advice about tyres. I think they compile a lot of tests, maybe do own too. I have never been disappointed with what I choose using that site.
( buy there too, but of course that would be madness for you!)

Like I have been taught: Tyres and brakes are the absolutely most important parts on a car.
They are the only difference between death or injury and a happy long life you have.

The only aspect in the tests I disregard is the Road noise. I find them all very silent.
I buy different types of tyres, depending on which car.

 

[Paul_B]

Totally agree, tyres and brakes. It's not dangerous being unable to start but stopping is kind of necessary don't you think!

 

[Darryl of Sussex]

Seems to me that you need two sets of tyres. Winter dedicated and another set for everything else.

When you say “better in the wet”, i’m wondering whether putting your money into improving your driving with Roadsmart, RoADAR(RoSPA)... maybe later on HPC, would be a better option, than trying to find a tyre upon which you are relying too heavily for grip vs controlled cornering, braking and acceleration forces on varying surfaces. Pass either or all of those tests (often examined by Police advanced drivers) and you’ll be more aware of handling, observation and planning and that will give you a far better chance of not needing to rely on hoping you made the right choice of tyres.

I tend to not drive on snow, ice and floods if possible, not because I can't, but because hardly anybody else can even though they are! Even then, notice how bog standard Transits and Transporters generally fly about without any bother or measurable attention or skill of their drivers.

Check out Reg Local on youtube.

Two sets are better than one.

 

[Toddy]

I drive in all weathers, and I've never changed the tyres. I've never skidded and had an accident, I've never totalled a car, I've never ended up in a ditch, and I drive everything from motorway to medieval cobbles.....and I'm not known for being slow.

Touch wood my good luck persists, but sometimes I wonder just how much mince is spouted about buying expensive tyres.

In the past week I have driven in 4" of snow, on ice, on dry roads, on salt sprayed and wet roads (blinding spray when trying to overtake), on motorways and on our twisty farm roads, and never once thought that I wasn't in control of the car.

The most road holding and secure car I have ever driven was a wee white Renault Clio, that had been 'written off' and repaired and done up by a student who was friends with my son. He'd intended to keep it for himself and had put extra wide wheels on the car. It did rather screw up the insurance a bit, but that wee car gripped the road like nothing else I've driven. It literally drove up gravel tracks up hills, across muddy fields, down Broad Street in Stirling (steep chicanes on cobbles) on the iced up residue of packed two foot of snow, on motorways in torrential rain and sleet and snow, in the tar melting heat of Summer over the upland single track moor roads, and never once slid or lost grip.


Sometimes I think folks need to learn to drive what they have.

M....wielding the big wooden spoon

 

[Broch]

Sometimes I think folks need to learn to drive what they have.

Agreed, and stay off the b****y road until they do

Very few people do any driver training after they pass their test in their late teens - decades later they think they are great drivers when all the training they've had was basic. Decades of practicing bad habits and becoming complacent behind the controls of a killing machine!

Just thought I'd give the pot a stir for you Toddy

 

[Toddy]

That's a very good point; we don't really do any further training after we pass the test.
I know that I insisted that my son had a couple of 'motorway' lessons after he passed, but that was it.
I admit that I do read the 'how to drive in.....' updates that the RAC, AA, etc., put out, especially when there are weather warnings out.
I don't think it would harm for us to have more of those how-to type tutorials. Folks complain about it being the Nanny State though when they do appear
I like learning, I quite enjoy really clear and practical teaching. It doesn't harm to have us think about what we think we know, and maybe have a re-think if necessary.
Maybe an evaluation that won't impinge on the licence, just give us a heads up of things that would be better addressed ?
Too many folks won't want to risk it, I reckon.

M

 

[Janne]

I love driving. Full stop.
I took courses in advanced driving, advanced winter driving in Sweden.
Made my insurance cheaper.
I took some courses on tracks too. Great fun.

I was pleased they repelled the speed limit on the few remaining ‘free speed’ motorways in Germany. Not that you can drive fast there anymore. Lots of cars. Lots.

 

[Woody girl]

Snowmageddon? Snowmagonnow !

 

[Paul_B]

Passed my test at 17 years and 4 months first time after 2 months without driving due to a very bad winter in which my parents wouldn't let me drive their car. 6 weeks later I was on a Rospa gold driving course getting taught to drive to a police standard by a retired advanced police driving instructor. That was when I was a member of the local road safety association.

I have never written off a car and I've always learnt to handle whatever car I've driven in whatever conditions I've been in. Although I prefer to avoid the worst of British weather. Despite that I have no level of trust in this SEAT car. I have put it down to the car but I suspect I've not got on with the driver aids. For me the car does not feed back enough information if that makes sense.

For example I used to work on an industrial estate that was owned by our company and most but not all units on it was our company too. I often finished later than the day shift so the estate was clear of traffic. Being private property I took chances at time such as pushing the car a bit towards its limit. Learnt the limits, feel of them and learnt to handle a skid. Not very sensible but I was an adrenaline junky back then and the estate was empty of traffic and you could see clearly around the corners.

Basic cars like fiesta, escort or Astra. They started to lose grip in a predictable way. The seat doesn't feel like that. I have pulled out of a road in it and the driver aids light came on. It went from grip to no grip without any clue it was coming.

So right now I'm thinking anything that gives me a safety margin is better. I think it just needs a bit more grip that an all seasons tyre could give (the Michelin tyres seem to suit. However our driving skills and judgement on when to stay at home will still be the most important factors.

 

[Paul_B]

Snowmageddon? Snowmagonnow !

Never had any snow here. That's why we got caught out a bit north in the Lakes. No snow in the weather forecasts we checked neither.

 

[Darryl of Sussex]

Do you trust the driving standards of people who pass one or two 90 minute Advanced Driving retests with a silent, note taking, serving Police advanced driving examiner in their passenger seat every three years, more or less than the driving of people who took an L test several decades ago when they were 18 and who swear blind they know all there is to know about driving, because they’ve always kept within the lines and never hit the sides?

I’ve done the former (and more) and still think i’m just an alright driver compared to some of my peers. That’s why i’m in favour of mandatory retests. Tyres are just a part of the territory.

A good way to begin to check, is to put a dashcam with sound recording on in your front windscreen, then listen to and watch the footage back on a big screen...

If you don’t trust or get the right information from your car, if you can, change it.