single layer ventile and something on top

[mark j lang]

Dear all ive asked this before but thought I would try again. I have had double ventile in the past and wanted to try a single layer garment. As this would only be moderatly water proof I wondered if people had tried layering one single layer ventile over another to give complete rain protection but with layers that could be seperated to aid drying?

On a related note have people tried pertex or G1000 over a single layer ventile to help shed rain with the ventile providing protection underneath? For example would a paramo windproof smock (which is showerproof and fast drying) worn over single ventile help the ventile keep out heavy rain?

thanks

mark lang

 

[Pierr]

Hi,
I have used with good success pertex underneath a single layer of ventile. I think it makes most sense to keep ventile on top to benefit from its mechanical strength, fire resistance and relative silence. Also since ventile works by soaking up the water it is logical to keep it on top.

 

[SimonM]

As pierr says...or a wool Swanndri shirt, with a merino wool base layer. It may get damp, but the mid layer retains its thermal properties.

If it really buckets down then I use the Ventile poncho over the top. This combo works for me, when in the woods, but I don't use it for general walking or back packing.

Simon

 

[treadlightly]

A suggestion. Wool and ventile works very well. The most exposed part of a single ventile jacket is the shoulders. Take an old wool jumper that you have no use for and cut off the bottom part so you just have the bit that covers the shoulders and wear this under your jacket. That way, there is protection without too much weight or warmth. Sounds a bit daft but it works for me.

 

[wildrover]

I've got a SASS Ventile smock which is a single layer jacket which is double layered at the shoulders

http://www.sasskit.co.uk/product.php?id=53

While is good for showery weather, the single layer bits do get wet in heavy rain.
As a result I got this.

http://www.sasskit.co.uk/product.php?id=120

Cheap, and in my experience it works well.
That's praise from me indeed, considering I've been wearing Goretex jackets since the late 80's and have yet to have one that hasn't failed in short order.

In winter I also team the smock with a Buffalo Special shirt (not often with the GTX Liner) or my Alpkit Filo (if it's dry).

Hope this helps.

PS
No connection with the companies mentioned other than been chuffed with service and quality.

Chris

 

[Shewie]

I've been using Country Innovations Kestrel smock for a few years now, single layer but it does have CI's water and windproof lining inside which works really well.

http://www.countryinnovation.com/clothing/jackets/kestrel-smock-1.html

Like the guys have mentioned, layering up with wool makes the whole drying out thing much easier. If it's a longer trip out though, managing to keep natural materials from getting damp can be a chore. All good fun and there's nothing better than the smell of wood smoke on your clothes when you get home

 

[DeesideChiel]

Mark
Keep the Ventile as the outer and try a Parmo reversible shirt under. I have worn a combination of Hilltrek Braemar Smock (See http://www.hillgear.com/acatalog/copy_of_copy_of_Ventile.html) with Paramo Reversible shirt on many conditions. Three weekends ago I was climbing two Munros in the Glen Lyon area of Perthshire in driven mist/rain in 30-40mph winds. I started out with a short sleeve Paramo travel shirt but the dampness on the windward side of my lower arms was uncomfortable. My friends were wearing Paramo and Patagonia and I was just as dry as them and not as damp underneath as the Patagonia wearer.
The other tip is to wash the smock in Nikwax TX Direct.

 

[mark j lang]

thanks for all the useful replies

 

[Tiley]

I recently followed up Wild Rover's ideas From SASS kit and bought one of the Dutch forces PTFE (Goretex) combat jacket liners. I'm now waiting for some suitably savage weather in which to test it under my Ventile top. The very friendly guy at SASS said that he is unable to make any Ventile jackets or trousers at the moment because he can't get hold of the cloth. I suppose it's just a matter of waiting and seeing.

When the weather turns nasty and I get to go out and play in the PTFE liner, I'll PM you my findings, if that would help.

 

[Nonsuch]

A few thoughts based on experience with various combos (all IMHO) :

- Single Ventile will get very damp in heavy rain - not sodden, just damp. If you wash it with detergent it will be worse
- Double Ventile jackets are pretty waterproof but are hot, stiff and heavy - too hot for summer anyway
- I found the SASS goretex smock liner to be unsuccessful as it didn't breathe very well and I got soaking inside when wearing it with a single ventile jacket or a gabardine jacket
- A Paramo mountain shirt or similar under single Ventile will not keep you 100% dry (back area under rucsack / neck area is a problem) - however a Taiga fleece which has the pump liner will keep you dry under just about anything, but you will be very very hot !
- Single Ventile and wool (eg Swanni) works well but as has been said before, cumulative dampness on a long wet trip will be a problem
- After some bad experiences I no longer trust or rate Paramo garments, but I am in the minority

My preferred combo now is a single Ventile smock (Westwinds) as an all purpose tough hooded "windshirt" with reasonable water repellency, then a heavy duty goretex jacket over the top or instead of for prolonged exposure to heavy rain. The Ventile smock will dry out under the Goretex. Despite its bad rep on this forum, I've always found Goretex to be as breathable as I needed it to be and surprisingly spark / camp-fire resistant

In reference to the OP's question about G1000, I have found it to be not remotely waterproof and sold my jacket on.

Incidentally, Paul at SASS will make up a jacket if you send him your own Ventile. You can buy Ventile seconds in small quantities direct from Talbot. I have done this twice and have a couple of SASS's smocks in Ventile.

Hope some of this helps the debate
NS

 

[Graham_S]

I use a ventile windshirt (from westwinds) and a swannie shirt.
If the heavens open, I use a poncho over the top.
Works for me.

 

[marshall4771]

like Graham says, a Bison Bushshirt with a US army (green) poncho. Great combo

regards

Shaun

 

[mark j lang]

Thanks for that, thought provoking. Interested to hear your bad experince with paramo, mine has been fine and is almost 20 years old. have had a garment 'fail' in the Pyrennes when I got very cold and wet, but this was due to me not having washed and proofed it for a long period. However i do find paramo warm and am still searching for a good summer condition waterproof in lowland environments, it sounds as if single ventile with paramo shirt or my swannie will be the way to go, jut have to save now!

 

[Bushmeister]

My suggestion: Hilltrek Cotton Analogy. Got their Foinaven smock - ventile outer with paramo analogy pump liner.

Combines better face fabric than normal paramo stuff (I too have been let down by paramo while doing the TGO challenge in high winds at altitude), with the breathability and 'moisture pump' properties of their liner.

Not let me down yet. The best of the old and new!

 

[_mark_]

I like the Westwinds single layer stuff, I have the Airdale under which I sometimes wear a buffalo S6 if it's <0. I am seriously considering the Harkila Prohunter, v. expensive but my friend hammers his 24/7 and after a few years it's still going strong (has a five year warranty!) Most Gortex stuff I owned got torn fairly quickly rendering it immediately useless.

 

[Nonsuch]

My suggestion: Hilltrek Cotton Analogy. Got their Foinaven smock - ventile outer with paramo analogy pump liner.

Combines better face fabric than normal paramo stuff (I too have been let down by paramo while doing the TGO challenge in high winds at altitude), with the breathability and 'moisture pump' properties of their liner.

Not let me down yet. The best of the old and new!

I like this idea but I have a question. The paramo liner gets smelly unless you wash it regularly. Ventile doesn't really like being washed (loses proofing, goes stonewashed etc). How do you find this problem ?

 

[Bushmeister]

Never had the problem of smelly paramo! Usually find the opposide - because it isn't waterproof, but relies on water seeping in then being 'pumped out', usually find it self-washing! Also because it is so much more breathable I find it less sweaty than gortex etc (in cool weather of-course).

However, if you find it smelly would suggest turning inside out and washing as usual - I wouldn't need to do this more than once a year or so.