I have a shoulder holster for my .45 colt. That gun is heavy and it is the best way to carry it. My smaller 9mm and .32 cal PPK are better suited for waistband carry. For my Colt the rig carries the firearm on one side and two clips on the other side to balance things out. To me a rig like that for a knife is only useful for tactical reasons. And just a note even in the US if you were wearing that under your jacket it would be jail in most states if you did not have a CCW permit.
Shoulder Knife Sheath
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Is it still true that in some states it's an offence to carry a concealed firearm, but in others it's the opposite - you have to have it on display?
ISTRC in the 70s it was so.
It was also the case that you needed a Federal permit to own a disguised weapon eg. a swordstick or air cane.
Jim
I ended up with a Blackhawk thigh holster as I found it a lot more comfy, easier to reach, and - frankly - it was probably a good thing that it wasn't concealed. In fact, I wanted people to know I had it and we didn't really have problems with the law where we were working! In vehicles, ended up with it attached to a chest rig.
Having said all that, a huge number of the US people in the HQ used the shoulder holsters. Well, horses for courses (again).
Every state is different and even local customs come into play. In Texas it is not uncommon to see someone in the smaller towns openly carrying a pistol but that would not be treated the same way in the big cities. Here in Michigan it is legal to open carry but you have to be careful because not every city or township will allow it. However the Michigan CCW permit is good for the whole state and even good in about 35 other states. Michigan has followed the latest trend by making a must issue law for CCW permits. In the past you had to have a good reason to get a permit. Now they must issue you a permit unless you are disqualified for some reason (like a felony conviction or a personal protection order against you.)
No federal permit for a swardstick or air cane. We can even buy automatic knives in some areas ( Gatlinburg Tennessee is one place if you are ever over here.) A federal permit is required to purchase a fully automatic weapon. Fully automatic weapons (real military assault rifles) can not be produced for civilian market anymore so what is out there is very expensive not to mention the federal transfer tax. M16s are going for $15,000+. Most people buy the semiauto AR15 versions that are still produced and plan on converting them to full auto to fight off the zombies when they attack. Only one easy to make part is needed.
I was reading your knife laws in the blade section here. Very interesting how it is handled in the UK. We have a similar law but different.
Our law in Michigan is about intent of use too. But you don't have to give any reason for caring a knife. The burden of proof is on them that you had bad intentions. They will use all kinds of Jedi mind tricks to trip you up so you will say something they can use against you. Best thing to do is say you use it for camping and any other questions about it should be directed to your lawyer. Having a shoulder rig like shown here without a CCW would surly get you arrested. Whether or not the prosecutor would press charges would depend if he thought he could convince a jury you had planed to use it as a weapon. Our prosecutors are elected so they want to be able to say they have a 98% conviction rate or some such BS so they will drop charges if they think they might lose.I also remember that if you had a Pistol Parabellum P'08 or Mauser C96 you needed to remove the lug that the shoulder stock fitted to, to avoid the need for a Federal permit and payment of the transfer tax. Does it still apply?
Jim
as I understand the US law from other sites (it often comes up in discussions such as these) the majority of states have a system whereby to carry a concealed firearm you must have a suitable permit. depending on the state this may be aquired by simply proving you are over 18 and have a clean criminal record, or it may require some kind of basic training (usualy an overview of the pertienent laws, plus firearms saftey), or it may require "special circumstances".
some states theoreticaly allow open carry without a licence, although it is somewhat frowned on in most circumstances, and often can still get you in trouble should a police officer decide it is inapropriate, as there are laws about "going armed to the alarm of the public" or somesuch.
Yes it would. Though you miss one obvious point. If he has a good reason to have the knife on him then it matters not how it is carried. Think about a lock knife in a pocket this is also what you would called a concealed weapon yet is perfectly ok if you have a reason to carry the knife. He only has to worry if he has no good reason to carry it, then it will not matter where it is carried as it will be illegal anyway. It is the purpose you have a knife for that the law goes on, not how it is carried.
If your state or other local jurisdiction doesn't outlaw them. The 'permit' is a $200 transfer tax, an extensive federal background check including fingerprints and requires what essentially boils down to the permission of the local chief police officer. Once obtained you need written permission well in advance from a federal government agency in order to transport it over the state line... so you'd better choose your shooting range very carefully if you live near the state border. The same rules apply to rifles under 16" barrel length, shotguns under 18" barrel length, sound suppressors and 'destructive devices'. Note that a lot of these categories can be held quite readily on a UK firearms certificate.
The registry for machineguns was closed under legally dubious circumstances in September 1986. A surplus Sten Mk3 receiver couldn't be sold for $200 in the 80s. Nowadays you're talking $5000... with two decades of wear and tear. The crucial/keystone part for converting HK rifles to full auto apparently are one of the most expensive pieces of metal, in terms of dollars-per-gram.
If they are 'readily convertible' the BATF will rule them a machinegun irrespective of the current configuration of the gun. The BATF is quite 'creative' when they deice on what is and isn't 'readily convertable'. One example that comes to mind require 24 man-hours of work by an expert gunsmith in a well-equipped gunsmithing-oriented machine shop and a number of part changes. (They also once ruled a shoestring a machinegun...) Conversion of a commercial semi-automatic rifle or pistol to full-automatic is actually quite difficult. The AR15 for instance (what the M16 and M4 are based on) requires the changing of several internal parts as well as the modification of the receiver. There are ways to get some guns to go full auto more easily but there is a significant chance of the gun blowing up in your hands and taking large chunks of you with it.
Generally yes, they come under the rules for 'short barreled rifle', for which the whole National Firearms Act process is required (transfer tax, paperwork, chief police officer permission, paperwork, fingerprints, more paperwork etc.). However a number of historical firearms have been exempted by the BATF from this paperwork under 'curio and relic' status. Examples include the 'artillery' model Luger (P08 with longer barrel and detachable shoulder stock/holster), certain models of C96 'broomhandle' Mauser with a similar setup, and models of P35 Browning Hi Power / Grand Puissance with a similar setup (some apparently with ladder rearsights graduated up to 1200 yards!). They are quite specific with regards to manufacturer and serial number ranges.
Quite a tangent!
If I recall, in the late 60s and early 70s, people in the U.S. were filing off the shoulder stock lugs on artillery model P08s, because at that time they weren't exempt.
Jim
Well said Hillbill, i think that puts everything in context, but i don't think thats the end of it !.
Rob
Rob
Yes there is a law about a short barreled rifle. It is why the semi auto UZI that is available has this stupid looking long 16 inch barrel or is short barrel with no stock and sold as a handgun. You would think if sold as a handgun it would not matter if it had a shoulder stock or not. The laws intent was to stop people from turning rifles into handguns but lacks common sense.
There is also a weird law about a vertical front grip but yet it seems to be allowed on a pump action shotgun. Go figure.
Michigan does not allow them but you can get around it by becoming a firearms dealer. Not easy but doable if you have a corner in a commercial business to call your gun shop. There is a group that meets over by Lake Michigan that shoots full autos and allows visitors to shoot for a fee.
Trust me it is not difficult at all for the AR15. Only a very little machining skill is needed. All the M16 parts for conversion are readily available and not too hard to install. The only machining is for the auto sear and you can make a drop in auto sear that does not require machining on the receiver. It will fire full auto without the auto sear but the bolt may not lock closed all the way before the round is fired. Not very safe as you point out. A drop in auto sear can be made with a hack saw, a file or two, and a drill press and does not require modification of the receiver. The hardest part would be to harden the part for people with no metallurgy skills and that can be done by your local metal shop. Here is a link to the drop in sear. http://www.quarterbore.com/nfa/dias.html Also preban drop in auto sears are still available for a price but I wonder how many are BATF traps.
I would not have even a preban sear if you are in possession of a AR15. That will get you around 10 years.
The concealed part only comes into play if the police decide the knife is carried as a weapon and not a tool.
A knife is both legal and illegal at the same time as it is both tool and weapon. If carried as a tool in a reasonable place as to assume that it is indeed a tool in use then it is legal weather its in your pocket on a belt under your arm or attached to an earing. it does not matter.
Yet carry that same blade shopping or to a pub/ football game etc where its only possible use could be as a weapon then cya bye.
The Knife law in this country is simple, sensible and protects the legitimate user.
Exactly, in a nut shell
Fixed blade knives aren't illegal, and they can be carried in public, provided you have a legitimate reason for doing so. It is as much down to attitude of the carrier as it is to the perception of the police officer, and the first will certainly effect the second. If it is being carried for a legitimate purpose and in a responsible manner, it will be regarded as a tool. If it's not a tool, then it may well be perceived as a weapon, and then you have a problem, given todays political climate.
Yep, bang on.
The problem is not the law as written, but the target driven police force enforcing it.
What new laws?
As has been stated above, most knives are legal and can be carried if they are intended to be used as a tool at that time...........the problem here if a police officer confronts you is....if you ahve a legitamate use for that knife, why are you concealing it?
Ergo, it is more likely that the police officer will have reason to doubt your response.....not everytime, when it is obvious that you do have a use for the knife but those times when things become "a little grey" or you meet the new, still wet behind the ears young officer. Take heed of what people are saying.....using such a item moves you closer to the not being able to addequately explain youself......which could cause you problems you do not need or could quite easily see you in court and with criminal record which would provide the police with all they require to search you everytime they see you....
Trust me I see similar scenarios every week at the probation servcie.
Smoggy.
Ergo, it is more likely that the police officer will have reason to doubt your response.....not everytime, when it is obvious that you do have a use for the knife but those times when things become "a little grey" or you meet the new, still wet behind the ears young officer. Take heed of what people are saying.....using such a item moves you closer to the not being able to addequately explain youself......which could cause you problems you do not need or could quite easily see you in court and with criminal record which would provide the police with all they require to search you everytime they see you....
Trust me I see similar scenarios every week at the probation servcie.
Smoggy.
Our police would make the case that a knife in a quick draw position like that is only used for tactical reasons making it a weapon. What other plausible reason can you give for needing such quick access?
Anyone thought about calling the local police station and asking what they would do? I know the police lieutenant for my township and I just ask him questions like this. He said my potato cannon was legal but be careful where you point it.
My mate IS a police man and he wasnt worryed how its carried just if you have reason to
To he also said they where nicking kids with a under 3" blade that does not lock but doing them for posseson of a sharply pointed artical completely bipassing the Blade exemption so to be proper legal EDC no reason you need a rounded end sub 3" non locker
ATB
Duncan
To he also said they where nicking kids with a under 3" blade that does not lock but doing them for posseson of a sharply pointed artical completely bipassing the Blade exemption so to be proper legal EDC no reason you need a rounded end sub 3" non locker
ATB
Duncan
unless they realy want to get you, in which case they make use of the "posession of an offensive weapon" laws, which can cover any knife, no matter what the shape of the blade, or the locking mechanism, along with all the other weird and wonderfuul non-projectile weapons you can think of (for example such classics as the baseball bat, the nail-y plank and the bike chain)
Our police would make the case that a knife in a quick draw position like that is only used for tactical reasons making it a weapon. What other plausible reason can you give for needing such quick access?
Anyone thought about calling the local police station and asking what they would do? I know the police lieutenant for my township and I just ask him questions like this. He said my potato cannon was legal but be careful where you point it.
There are different police mentalities between our two countries. Yours is a weapon orientated society while ours does its best not to be. Some areas have a weapon mentality and in those areas the risk of arrest for wrong reasons will be higher as a result.
For the most part though a knife used as a tool, especially in the woods away from people will be regarded as such. The carry option is then not even a consideration as it is legal and legitimate and unless the carrier was rude or offensive to the police officer, you will be taken as a responsible user.
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