Refilling Coleman Gas Canisters

[FishMark]

Leaving aside the issue of whether of not it's wise, does this technically work:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LalFZRiZNGs

I'd have thought that some kind of adapter would be required.

 

[RE8ELD0G]

AFAIK it will work but due to the difference in pressures of the different cans you will only get a half or less fill from the process even if you do put them in a freezer first.
Its due to the fact that camping ones are a much higher pressure fill than needed for filling lighters etc so unless you have one of the pumps you wont ever get a full fill.

Better to buy the kit and get a large propane tank for £20, you get a few hundred fills from those.

 

[FishMark]

Leaving aside the issue of whether of not it's wise, does this technically work:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LalFZRiZNGs

I'd have thought that some kind of adapter would be required.

I tried it today and to my astonishment you *can* transfer Butane from a lighter fluid bottle into a Coleman style canister.

The lighter fluid can nozzle fits snugly in the canister.

I used scales to check all the Butane had gone in.

Apparently Butane is stored at lower pressure than other forms of LPG, so if I do this again I will only use Butane.

Propane is fluid at 5bar, Butane at 2bar. A standard Coleman canister is 70/30 mix.

 

[British Red]

AFAIK it will work but due to the difference in pressures of the different cans you will only get a half or less fill from the process even if you do put them in a freezer first.
Its due to the fact that camping ones are a much higher pressure fill than needed for filling lighters etc so unless you have one of the pumps you wont ever get a full fill.

Better to buy the kit and get a large propane tank for £20, you get a few hundred fills from those.

Have you actually done this? I have been told that the far higher pressures in the large calor cylinders makes it likely to rupture the Coleman cylinder.

 

[RE8ELD0G]

The kits have a restrictor of some type on the end that cuts them off when it reaches pressure.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk

 

[RE8ELD0G]

But no. I have not done it myself only going by what I was told by my local calor gas dealer

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[rik_uk3]

Also remember that in colder weather Butane is as useful as a chocolate tea pot. If your camping warm enough for Butane to work look at something like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triangle-...016?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item51baf72500

The Butane canisters from the likes of B&M/Poundstretcher are a £1 a can and so cheaper than farting about with lighter gas, these work OK http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/28-BUTANE...Goods_Camping_Accessories&hash=item540e35aae9

 

[petrochemicals]

It's very useful when you can't find any gas and there's a 24 hour garage. But lighter gas isn't all that much cheaper than a colemans cannister, at 1.50 a pop and you need two of them, halfords mix cannisters are 4 quid. If it is anything like a cigarette lighter, shake the refill to pressurise it and warm it up, that'll create a pressure difference.

Edit;

Ooh yeah halfords also sell a mix A4 aerosol cannister propane butane for about 2 quid.

 

[Teepee]

I have issues about damaging the valve from using a direct connection like that. Had valves fail before when I've been out.

I bought a propane refilling kit from ebay, removed the propane tank adaptor and then use the butane refill can with one of the plastic adaptors pushed into the clear plastic tube. I can see the gas running into the can and know when the can is full. Works a treat.

Also works with the cheaper range type butane cans that Rik-just need to drill the plastic adaptor out a bit. If you have a remote feed gas stove that the fuel line unscrews from, you can also refill through the fuel line.

I publicly don't recommend doing any of this on safety grounds.

 

[FishMark]

Have you actually done this? I have been told that the far higher pressures in the large calor cylinders makes it likely to rupture the Coleman cylinder.

Aparently Butane is liquid at half the pressure of 30/70 Propane/Butane. (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/propane-butane-mix-d_1043.html)

The Coleman cannisters are filled with 70/30 butane/propane mix.

I'm not sure what that means in terms of the pressure the Coleman canisters are stored at, but I suspect pure propane might well be stored at a vastly higher presure than the 70/30 mix so, personally, if I choose to do this again I'll only fill with Butane so I'm sure I'm not going beyond the pressure the canister was designed for.

Regarding Teepee's comment about possible valve damage, although I saw no sign of this, pushing the lighter fluid nozzle in can't be as gentle on the valve as the the stove attachment. Also you have to hold the lighter fluid can slightly off 90 degrees for the transfer to take place so that can't be good for the valve. So I think it's a valid concern.

 

[widu13]

I refill propane cylinders at the petrol station with an adapter and I also refill my disposable 100g carts from the larger 500g carts using a fleababy adapter and occasionally with the cheap stove butane carts. I prefer refilling like for like i.e. iso propane/butane mix, so as long as you start with a known weight you refill until the same weight is achieved and then there is no danger of overfilling.

 

[FishMark]

I refill propane cylinders at the petrol station with an adapter and I also refill my disposable 100g carts from the larger 500g carts using a fleababy adapter and occasionally with the cheap stove butane carts. I prefer refilling like for like i.e. iso propane/butane mix, so as long as you start with a known weight you refill until the same weight is achieved and then there is no danger of overfilling.

Can you explain what you mean by overfilling - it's not clear to me how you could overfill a 100g EN417 butane/propane lindel cartridge from a 500g EN417 butane/propane lindel cartridge. I might have a misunderstanding.

Also can you point me to a link to the adaptor you use to fill the 100g to the 500g canisters. I guess it would be 'lindal to lindal' and I can't find one.

 

[widu13]

Can you explain what you mean by overfilling - it's not clear to me how you could overfill a 100g EN417 butane/propane lindel cartridge from a 500g EN417 butane/propane lindel cartridge. I might have a misunderstanding.

Also can you point me to a link to the adaptor you use to fill the 100g to the 500g canisters. I guess it would be 'lindal to lindal' and I can't find one.

If you overfill there may not be enough room for expansion due to climate variances. Not so important in winter but very important in the summer, or you may have a pressure rupture. The link will have to wait for tomorrow.

 

[widu13]

Found it.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/G-WORKS-N...365?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e91ef61e5

 

[FishMark]

Found it.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/G-WORKS-N...365?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e91ef61e5

Absolutely fantastic. Many thanks, ordered one.

No more half empty cartridges lying around & I don't think I'll be using meths again.

 

[FishMark]

If you overfill there may not be enough room for expansion due to climate variances. Not so important in winter but very important in the summer, or you may have a pressure rupture.

Thanks.

I may be misunderstanding but it seems to me that even if you filled a cannister full of liquid with no gap at all the pressure in the canister would still be the "saturated vapour pressure" of the gas and no more. ie The pressure in the canister is always the "saturated vapour pressure" and varies with temperature alone regardless of how full it is. (As long as you don't use a powerful pump to fill with a volume of fluid above the volume of the cannister.)

Am I missing something?

 

[widu13]

Thanks.

I may be misunderstanding but it seems to me that even if you filled a cannister full of liquid with no gap at all the pressure in the canister would still be the vapour pressure of the gas and no more. ie The pressure in the canister is always the vapour pressure and varies with temperature and temperature alone regardless of how full it is. (As long as you don't use a powerful pump to fill with a volume of fluid above the volume of the cannister.)

Am I missing something?

Think of frozen water bursting a full bottle placed into a freezer. The gas at higher temps takes up more room thus needing room to expand into. All bottled gas contains room for expansion.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/dictionary/physics-terms/expansion-info.htm

 

[mrcharly]

Thanks.

I may be misunderstanding but it seems to me that even if you filled a cannister full of liquid with no gap at all the pressure in the canister would still be the "saturated vapour pressure" of the gas and no more. ie The pressure in the canister is always the "saturated vapour pressure" and varies with temperature alone regardless of how full it is. (As long as you don't use a powerful pump to fill with a volume of fluid above the volume of the cannister.)

Am I missing something?

All you are missing is the fact that the liquid gas isn't very compressible. So if the gas cylinder is absolutely full of liquid, when it warms up the pressure has to go up.
Normally the cylinders are not 'full' of liquid, there is a space left for gas and your thought about the vapour pressure is correct.

Same principle as car radiators and header tanks. Don't overfill the header tank.

 

[British Red]

It may help to explain that I have a rather large propane cylinder - just a smidge larger than Coleman ones.

Calor Tank by British Red, on Flickr

When filled with propane "full" is 80%. The remaining 20% is the area in which the liquid propane turns to vapour - an expansion zone if you will - its needed to safeguard the tank integrity.

 

[FishMark]

Google came to the rescue. The gas pressure is indeed a constant determined by the saturated vapour pressure. However the fluid itself has a fairly high high co-efficient of expansion (0.002 - 0.003 depending on the gas) which needs room to expand.