Ok. Don’t take my advice then! Go ahead and break your stuff. Not like I have any experience of what I’m talking about. 
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Ok. Don’t take my advice then! Go ahead and break your stuff. Not like I have any experience of what I’m talking about.
Not sure why you are so skritchy. People disagree quite often, are you an expert? Or did you just have a bad experience?
I used to have wooden double glazed windows that blew the seal almost every six months somewhere or other, and I ended up with condensation between the panes. I had to have regular repairs, they were 30 yrs old mind. New pvc windows have sorted that out. But I assure you, as long as this is done correctly it works very well.
Several of my friends also use this technique over last summer and this, and nobody has "broken their stuff" . So, tried and tested. It works.
Our double glazing is for the most part still sound, though we are regularly harranged to get it 'up dated' because it's now ten years past it's guarantee. Only one pane has (recently) blown it's seal, but it's the one that gets the most sunshine, so now I'm wondering.
My intent had just to get a glazier to replace that pane because nothing else even looks old let alone blown. However, it only started to have condensation between the panes after I put up heat reflecting linings in the curtains in that room.
Tbh, @FerlasDave I would never have thought about perhaps overheating the vacuum until your post. I will think on it, and mind and check with the glazier when I get around to changing the pane.
We learn something every day, we really do.
M
My intent had just to get a glazier to replace that pane because nothing else even looks old let alone blown. However, it only started to have condensation between the panes after I put up heat reflecting linings in the curtains in that room.
Tbh, @FerlasDave I would never have thought about perhaps overheating the vacuum until your post. I will think on it, and mind and check with the glazier when I get around to changing the pane.
We learn something every day, we really do.
M
I shall not. Just show me one window that actually has vacuum in it. Full vacuum puts a load of ten tons/m² on the glass. You still say there is vacuum in a window?
Here's one.
What is Vacuum Glazing? | Window Technology | Gowercroft Joinery
What is Vacuum Glazing? Find out about the latest innovations in window technology that help keep your home warmer and quieter than ever before. Read on…
gowercroft.co.uk
And it has spacers (a bridge for sound and heat) and the load is still 10t/m². It also says thinner panes which does not really sound good for every day living. And the in-plane thermal expansion still happens. With all the edges of the spacers there is probably some interesting transparency effects.
Argon tends to diffuse out in a few years across a pressure diff of 0 atm, are the same sealing materials supposed to keep vacuum in with 1 atm diff?
When I first saw this about 20 years ago I thought nobody would play with such a bad idea, apparently somebody did.
Argon tends to diffuse out in a few years across a pressure diff of 0 atm, are the same sealing materials supposed to keep vacuum in with 1 atm diff?
When I first saw this about 20 years ago I thought nobody would play with such a bad idea, apparently somebody did.
Many of our very old buildings have had vacuum glazing fitted because it's not only very good, but very fine and thus can replace the older single panes without compromising the aesthetics of the buildings. 'Conservation' villages like ours which have restrictions on improvements so that they still comply with originals, are fairly commonplace.
Historic Scotland have used them to great effect. Everything from castles to townhouses.
They've been in use for decades and last fine.
I think our windows are Xenon filled. Pretty sure they're not argon or krypton.
Link....
www.windowsonlineuk.co.uk
Historic Scotland have used them to great effect. Everything from castles to townhouses.
They've been in use for decades and last fine.
I think our windows are Xenon filled. Pretty sure they're not argon or krypton.
Link....
Argon vs. Krypton vs. Xenon in Windows - Windows and More
When it comes to energy efficiency, windows are notoriously vulnerable. Given a chance, they’ll drain the heat out of your home ...
www.windowsonlineuk.co.uk
The heavier the noble gas the better thermal insulating it gives. As said argon has not been a success, I have not seen studies on the longevity of the others.
Many of our very old buildings have had vacuum glazing fitted because it's not only very good, but very fine and thus can replace the older single panes without compromising the aesthetics of the buildings. 'Conservation' villages like ours which have restrictions on improvements so that they still comply with originals, are fairly commonplace.
Historic Scotland have used them to great effect. Everything from castles to townhouses.
They've been in use for decades and last fine.
I think our windows are Xenon filled. Pretty sure they're not argon or krypton.
Link....
Argon vs. Krypton vs. Xenon in Windows - Windows and More
When it comes to energy efficiency, windows are notoriously vulnerable. Given a chance, they’ll drain the heat out of your home ...
Biggest bug bear for me is double glazing and planning permission.
We live in a country where buildings have evolved over centuries then all of a sudden evolution must stop... double glazing is a natural progression and given we are in an environmental crisis where we need to all do our bit.. woodburners being frowned upon etc... but people then get forced to go for wooden double glazing units or particularly designed stuff that doesn't come cheap.
I do appreciate aesthetics, but there has to be a compromise somehow.
You should hear my wee bother. He repairs the woodwork on old buildings, and he's furious that they totally ignore the woodwork of the windows and doors in favour of plastic this that and t'other. He says that the old buildings were made to breathe, and modern stuff suffocates them and allows mould and rot to thrive. Then we attack it with chemicals....that are incredibly toxic.
I think you're right and that there is a compromise to be made.
The very thin vacuum panes are very good replacements though, if expensive.
M
I think you're right and that there is a compromise to be made.
The very thin vacuum panes are very good replacements though, if expensive.
M
I definitely accept the breathability argument, equally I do love heritage things/buildings/craftsmanship. I just find that a lot of people in the country are over a barrel. Cost of living has gone up, eco-warriors will crucify you for fires/fire places and energy saving methods are beyond a lot of people's budgets.
I don't know what the answer is, which is probably why it's a bug bear to me.
Allowing white pvc everywhere would look awful and put a lot of craftsmen and women out of work (at least in the window and door department), but equally elderly dying of cold and heat because they can't afford to change their single glazing or put the heating on isn't particularly good either.
Plastic windows probably is not the real culprit as at least here they can be had with ventilation which is more controlled than the traditional leaking. Excess moisture is the problem and controlling that is quite possible but not really easy. Or easy but it costs, putting your air conditioner on moisture removal. Ventilation and more ventilation is the next one. The solution depends on the wall materials and climate and I think we have it actually a bit easier than UK.
I ought to have been clearer; he gets angry that the repairs will be done to stone and brick and tile and founds, but wood is simply cut out and thrown away. Wood can be repaired, be stabilised and made sound again, but plastic's easier.
Well yes but. Used to sell a UK watery epoxy for old wood stabilization.
I am actually for repairing old wood with new similar wood.
I run dehumidifiers in the cool of the year. They take in moisture and they give out heat, so it's a win/win for me. Very few people do this though, and rely on turning up the heat to drive off the moisture....which is fine, if you have good ventilation and cheap energy.....
Right now though, we've had torrential rain on and off all day and it's still too hot, but the humidity is up to 78 outside and 71 inside. I need to run the dehumidifiers, but it's too blooming warm, and it's Summer, so like most we don't use energy much this season. Kind of preps us for the Winter bills.
Sod's law really. Mould doesn't care about either the season or the bills.
At least we weren't away camping this weekend. Folks have had to be rescued from their flooded tents overnight up at Loch Lomond.
news.stv.tv
Right now though, we've had torrential rain on and off all day and it's still too hot, but the humidity is up to 78 outside and 71 inside. I need to run the dehumidifiers, but it's too blooming warm, and it's Summer, so like most we don't use energy much this season. Kind of preps us for the Winter bills.
Sod's law really. Mould doesn't care about either the season or the bills.
At least we weren't away camping this weekend. Folks have had to be rescued from their flooded tents overnight up at Loch Lomond.
Six campers rescued after heavy rain causes tents to become submerged
Two children and four adults were rescued after getting into difficulty when torrential rain hit overnight.
news.stv.tv
I once lived in a clay house in Hungary for two weeks. The most stable temp I have ever seen in any house.
@TLM
I see on your profile it says Finland, I've met a Finnish man before and chatted a lot, he was a really nice guy, showed me pictures of Finland, etc (also introduced me to the comedian Ismo!). I'm not totally sure, buf I'd assume that UK climate and Finland climate is different. We have a lot of wet weather throughout the year... we don't have frozen winters, interestingly my Polish friend said the -20 or more winters in Poland are "less cold" than the UK's wet 2⁰C to minus single figure °C or dry summers (typically) and our houses are based on bricks and mortar design, rather than in Finland it seems you guys focus a lot on insulation etc.. so in a sense we are already fighting a losing battle... we don't typically have air conditioning and the majority of UK houses are evolving houses always being retrofitted with extra insulation or this that and the other...
In modern self designed builds, thats where we see a lot more european techniques being introduced and a lot more eco homes which is very interesting.
I see on your profile it says Finland, I've met a Finnish man before and chatted a lot, he was a really nice guy, showed me pictures of Finland, etc (also introduced me to the comedian Ismo!). I'm not totally sure, buf I'd assume that UK climate and Finland climate is different. We have a lot of wet weather throughout the year... we don't have frozen winters, interestingly my Polish friend said the -20 or more winters in Poland are "less cold" than the UK's wet 2⁰C to minus single figure °C or dry summers (typically) and our houses are based on bricks and mortar design, rather than in Finland it seems you guys focus a lot on insulation etc.. so in a sense we are already fighting a losing battle... we don't typically have air conditioning and the majority of UK houses are evolving houses always being retrofitted with extra insulation or this that and the other...
In modern self designed builds, thats where we see a lot more european techniques being introduced and a lot more eco homes which is very interesting.
Well, to start a book ...
Now, we have less absolute humidity but relative numbers can be very high. At present the building regulations require for single home about 250mm mineral wool or equivalent. Triple windows minimum in practise and quadruple quite common.
Heat exchangers in machine ventilation. Two stage airtoair heat pumps fairly common.
Humidity is not very difficult to control as temp gradient is almost always to the outside which mens that water wants to go that way.too.
Our building standards would be overkill even in Scotland I think.
I live in an ~30 square meter one room apartment, ground floor. I have apartments to the left and right of me and on top. Only outside wall (with windows) is to the west.
Winter time I never need to turn the radiator on (unless it gets to -20C or colder). And still I have some +24C in my apartment in the winter.
The only explanation I can figure out is that heat radiates through the walls and ceiling from neighboring apartments and my only outer wall with windows is sufficiently insulated.
Winter time I never need to turn the radiator on (unless it gets to -20C or colder). And still I have some +24C in my apartment in the winter.
The only explanation I can figure out is that heat radiates through the walls and ceiling from neighboring apartments and my only outer wall with windows is sufficiently insulated.
I think you're probably right, I just mean the UK is historically built using bricks/stone and mortar... its continued like that forever... because I suppose we haven't really had deathly cold winters (as standard), "making do" has always been the port of call - draft excluders, jumpers, fires or even those gas bottle heaters!
You guys have I guess been forced by the elements to be efficient, it's created a much better environment for efficiency than the UK. Currently it's like 23°C inside (according to the thermostat)... during the winter I can have the heating flat out and where the thermostat is (coldest part) it'll take a while to hit 21°C... at a stretch might hit 22°C, but if turned off at night it'll easily drop to below 15°C... Wife and I are normally used to rocking about 16-17 degrees in the winter...
