Rebuild the Amazon
- Thread starter sandsnakes
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I'm gonna watch this with interest, I'm dubious about how effective it will be. Will it scale up quickly enough to regenerate the forest as quickly as its being burned? will the bureaucrats hamper progress so much that the project stops dead?
I hope not.
Perhaps a broad spectrum fund raising exercise would be prudent here.
I hope not.
Perhaps a broad spectrum fund raising exercise would be prudent here.
Locum,
The feed back is the farmers find it easy to work, it brings in more cash and stops them having to walk to their farms which are often retreating off in to the distance. Some of the farmers have to walk 15 miles up hills to get to their farms, when the crops are ripe they have to sleep out to prevent theft. People have reported that in some areas there are pitched battles with parangs as people get to the ridge line of parallel valleys, both side of the ridge being farmed out and barren.
When the locals see that it works, you don't need government, all you need are trees which are free if the guy next door has an inga cropping farm. Why will the guy next door let you have his spare trees, because your farm buffers his and also you won't do a midnight raid and steal his food. Its is often the case that the farmers form local groups and the nature of their society changes, you have food, stability, so you get schools, alcohol problems reduce as there is now seasonal work etc, etc. Kids dont have to till the fields that are 3 hours away, they have time for education. This works at so many levels, it encourages co-operation and the ever present human greed factor, the generation of cash.
Think of it this way for the sake of three pints you may help save the planet and get to heaven or similar! I can see it now Saint Locum of the Bush
Sandsnakes
The feed back is the farmers find it easy to work, it brings in more cash and stops them having to walk to their farms which are often retreating off in to the distance. Some of the farmers have to walk 15 miles up hills to get to their farms, when the crops are ripe they have to sleep out to prevent theft. People have reported that in some areas there are pitched battles with parangs as people get to the ridge line of parallel valleys, both side of the ridge being farmed out and barren.
When the locals see that it works, you don't need government, all you need are trees which are free if the guy next door has an inga cropping farm. Why will the guy next door let you have his spare trees, because your farm buffers his and also you won't do a midnight raid and steal his food. Its is often the case that the farmers form local groups and the nature of their society changes, you have food, stability, so you get schools, alcohol problems reduce as there is now seasonal work etc, etc. Kids dont have to till the fields that are 3 hours away, they have time for education. This works at so many levels, it encourages co-operation and the ever present human greed factor, the generation of cash.
Think of it this way for the sake of three pints you may help save the planet and get to heaven or similar! I can see it now Saint Locum of the Bush
Sandsnakes
Not trying to pick at anything here, just something caught my eye. This ( copy and pasted)
"but can lift them beyond mere subsistence level into a commercial strata by producing cash crops to enrich their lives materially".
Is this to help the farmers grow crops for themselves or for money? Cash crops being what earns the most, not what feeds the best or is best for the environment. In that area jute, coffee, cocoa, sugar cane, bananas, oranges and cotton are cash crops.
It says it is a not for profit organisation but wants to grow cash crops, in the same paragraph. Am i the only one to see the contradiction?
I am all for supporting this kind of initiative, and would donate. Good on you for doing this and thanks for posting the link.
I'm curious as to other people thoughts though.
"but can lift them beyond mere subsistence level into a commercial strata by producing cash crops to enrich their lives materially".
Is this to help the farmers grow crops for themselves or for money? Cash crops being what earns the most, not what feeds the best or is best for the environment. In that area jute, coffee, cocoa, sugar cane, bananas, oranges and cotton are cash crops.
It says it is a not for profit organisation but wants to grow cash crops, in the same paragraph. Am i the only one to see the contradiction?
I am all for supporting this kind of initiative, and would donate. Good on you for doing this and thanks for posting the link.
I'm curious as to other people thoughts though.
If you read some of the stories the process enables the farmers to sell surplus crops locally at markets and door to door. They also produce a 'cash crop' which tend to be spices, pepper, chilli etc, etc. In some cases the surplus produce as little as $50 US a year. But that small amount is a mountain of money to the farmers, it means no money lenders etc, etc. We tend to think of profit in western terms ie $ 10-15000 US but in their world its a matter of a few hundred dollars that makes the difference between poverty beyond our comprehension and being able to buy second hand clothes with the knees in for your kids. In that bit of the world its that basic. So yes, a charity enables them to get a foot hold and move out of abject poverty, Its not a contradiction, just a different world. We are fortunate it is not us.
Sandsnakes
p.s. Mike is still working on the site, its not his main priority, he would rather plant trees than type! Its like rather being in the woods than being here.
Sandsnakes
p.s. Mike is still working on the site, its not his main priority, he would rather plant trees than type! Its like rather being in the woods than being here.
HillBill,
Thanks for asking the question, it helps concentrate the minds of everyone reading this. I am going to pass on some of the observations to Mike for the site update.
Sandsnakes
Thanks for asking the question, it helps concentrate the minds of everyone reading this. I am going to pass on some of the observations to Mike for the site update.
Sandsnakes
Three inga shots
One showing cash rop of organic vanilla pods growing up an inga stem. The others are stages of growth and cropping. This system is the only one that will support maize, in some areas where there is a good climate and enough rain they can get two crops in a year. You will notice that some of the trees are becoming real trees, with full sized trunks. Not bad for a site that was barren about 8 years before, each of the bigger trees becoming a haven for bugs etc. which gives food for the other amazon creatures, basically building the food chain from the bottom up.
In the pictures it does not look that impressive, but this was barren and bare soil. The leaves and small twigs are left to mulch, the thicker limbs, thumb thickness and above, are used for fire wood.
Sandsnakes
One showing cash rop of organic vanilla pods growing up an inga stem. The others are stages of growth and cropping. This system is the only one that will support maize, in some areas where there is a good climate and enough rain they can get two crops in a year. You will notice that some of the trees are becoming real trees, with full sized trunks. Not bad for a site that was barren about 8 years before, each of the bigger trees becoming a haven for bugs etc. which gives food for the other amazon creatures, basically building the food chain from the bottom up.
In the pictures it does not look that impressive, but this was barren and bare soil. The leaves and small twigs are left to mulch, the thicker limbs, thumb thickness and above, are used for fire wood.
Sandsnakes
http://www.ingafoundation.org/
Hi guys this is a link to the Inga Foundation. They have loaded a lot more information on the site. There are some photos there that as 'woodsmen' we would all find pretty scary. Woods with no trees, barren soil and all biodiversity lost.
Take a peek, Mike is still at it, planting trees and kicking biolgical bottom so to speak.
Sandsnakes
Hi guys this is a link to the Inga Foundation. They have loaded a lot more information on the site. There are some photos there that as 'woodsmen' we would all find pretty scary. Woods with no trees, barren soil and all biodiversity lost.
Take a peek, Mike is still at it, planting trees and kicking biolgical bottom so to speak.
Sandsnakes
i worked for something similar in my gap year
(i know student scum)
and the sad thing is...single people can't make a difference
the amount of soya farms chopped out of the amazon is ridiculous, i mean, the lot of us could spend the rest of our lives reforesting these places
i was there for 3 months and did a small slash and burn area, about a km squared with dense shrubs and trees.....its just not feasable
not knocking anyone that tries, everyone that does try is a help and its great, but the damage done, when you get there and see it is absolutely soul destroying
I didn't mean to sound like a see you next tuesday by the way, i think organizations like this are fantastic, and i love them to pieces, its just sad how little impact they can make
I disagree totally! But then again we are all entitled to our opinions.
I think my inclination is to go with Mike Hands who is a world acknowleged expert, his expertise is gained from getting his hands dirty and doing it for the last 20 years.
It boils down to the more money they have to teach, the more barren area will be recultivated. This has a knock on effect in free seedlings. Think of it this way, they plant and develop one area that is square, in five years all four sides of the plot are planted and productive, in another five years 6 more are planted and productive and on and on. Do this in a thousand spots and you have 12000 planted areas, add to this those who see it works and are just doing it off of their own backs and you have a revolution.
I am sorry that your intensive 3 months did not give the world changining effect you hoped for. Frankly the cost of the air fare could have paid 10 locals for a year to clear and replant an area at probably three times the productivity (they know how to sharpen a parang quickly). Consequently your one plot would have become 3 cleared, in a year that is 12, multiply by 10 thats a 120. All for the cost of the air fare. So in the end your effort was an indulgence, had a high carbon foot print as well. Someone donating £50 from here will do more in practical terms than you ever could swinging a woodlore knife!
Welcome to the real world kid, its brutal, messy and never works the way we want! :swordfigh
Have a nice day
Sandsnakes
I think my inclination is to go with Mike Hands who is a world acknowleged expert, his expertise is gained from getting his hands dirty and doing it for the last 20 years.
It boils down to the more money they have to teach, the more barren area will be recultivated. This has a knock on effect in free seedlings. Think of it this way, they plant and develop one area that is square, in five years all four sides of the plot are planted and productive, in another five years 6 more are planted and productive and on and on. Do this in a thousand spots and you have 12000 planted areas, add to this those who see it works and are just doing it off of their own backs and you have a revolution.
I am sorry that your intensive 3 months did not give the world changining effect you hoped for. Frankly the cost of the air fare could have paid 10 locals for a year to clear and replant an area at probably three times the productivity (they know how to sharpen a parang quickly). Consequently your one plot would have become 3 cleared, in a year that is 12, multiply by 10 thats a 120. All for the cost of the air fare. So in the end your effort was an indulgence, had a high carbon foot print as well. Someone donating £50 from here will do more in practical terms than you ever could swinging a woodlore knife!
Welcome to the real world kid, its brutal, messy and never works the way we want! :swordfigh
Have a nice day
Sandsnakes
