Ray Mears Woodsman Shirt

[fishy1]

I think we're sort of forgetting the 'value' aspect here. I'll give you an example:

I have a Polar heart-rate monitor that I bought 5 years ago. It cost me 230 quid and lots of people said I was mad. It is able to collect data from bike sensors as well as altitude, temp, heart rate, etc. It can run interval training, it's waterproof, downloads to a computer so I can analyse my training and keep a long-term record - and it works really well.; however, I did not make the decision lightly as 230 quid is a lot of initial investment money.

Recently, after 5 years use, I damaged the case and it is now no longer waterproof, nor is it economical to repair. I'll need to get a new one and I just balked again at the price for a similar standard system. However, I did a cost-benefit analysis on the old one:

Cost: 230 quid
Use: I reckon 5 days a week, 48 weeks a year, over 5 years: that's 5 x 48 x 5 = 1200 times used.

That's a cost to me of 0.2 pence per use - each use usually 45 to 60 mins on average. so, making a conservative estimate, that's 0.0067 pence/minute. I'd say that's good value and it doesn't even start to include the benefits to my fitness and the pleasure I've had using it.

So, what's the point of the rambling rubbish I've just written?

If the guy who's just bought a Ray Mears shirt at 95 quid has that shirt for a number of years and uses it regularly, it actually turns out to be a good investment. You can trade this against buying cheaper, less durable items which you have to go through the inconvenience of having to replace more often. Again, it doesn't count the pleasure of being outside - can you quantify that?

It's up to the individual to decide whether the quality and durability of the garment is worth the cost (if the garment was rubbish, of course it wouldn't be worth 95 quid!).

The bottom line is it's not worth paying a lot of money for something you rarely use but it is worth paying a bit extra for that bit of gear which is regularly worn/used in pursuit of a pleasurable hobby.

The only flaw to the above argument is that you could effectively use it to persuade yourself to buy anything.

Damn...:twak:

The only flaw in your statement is your maths is wrong. It's actually about 19p per use.

I wouldn't pay 90 quid for a shirt, but I would pay 140 for a paramo waterproof or some other good things. But we don't need all expensive kit, but if you want to fair enough, but the price of your kit does not make you a better bushcrafter.

 

[spamel]

I've found in the last year or so that some of my cheapest clothing is the best for outdoor use. A high price tag does not make an item of kit the best. Hobo stoves don't cost much, yet they are very good bits of kit.

 

[sandbender]

I am reminded of a conversation between Eric Newby and Sir Wilfred Thesiger on the woeful state of British tailoring...

""England's going to pot," said Thesiger, as Hugh and I lay smoking the interpreter's king-size cigarettes, the first for a fortnight. "Look at this shirt, I've only had it three years, now it's splitting. Same with tailors; Gull and Croke made me a pair of whipcord trousers to go to the Atlas Mountains. Sixteen guineas - wore a hole in them in a fortnight.""



http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2003/aug/27/travelbooks

 

[John Fenna]

If this is what Ray was wearing in the first episode of "Walkabout" then it looks a fine shirt - but for my taste not a deep enough opening for ventilation and the pockets set too high to give rucksack strap clearance (as far as I can make out) - looks well made though!

 

[Glosfisher]

This shirt looks remarkably like the smock worn by all Danish Scouts in the Det Danske Spejderkorps (Danish scouting is very confusing with an umbrella organisation overseeing a number of scouting organisations often run by churches such as the baptists.

The smock is blue and is common to all ages of Scouts and their leaders

A far more practical garment than the pathetic "Oxford" type shirt we have to wear over here

 

[JonathanD]

I've been watching this shirt for ages, wondering who would buy it, even after I read a positive review someone posted a year back. I've been using Craghoppers and last year left them in a wet pile in the conservatory after a trip. To cut a long story short they needed replacing so I went off to Blacks. I love Craghoppers, but the silly twits have gone and put Grylls name all over them. I left them on the shelf. After buying a new belt from Woodlore, I checked out the shirt again, thought 'sod it' hit the buy button, and now I have one.

Expensive, oh yes, impulse buy, most definately, still got a 'name on it, yes, but at least Ray is respected. And am I happy? Too bloody right. I wish I'd bought this months ago, it's built to last all types of hard work, sweat, dirt, abrasive log lugging, etc, etc. Very well made. I'm even going to buy another. I very highly recommend it.

 

[Barn Owl]

I've been watching this shirt for ages, wondering who would buy it, even after I read a positive review someone posted a year back. I've been using Craghoppers and last year left them in a wet pile in the conservatory after a trip. To cut a long story short they needed replacing so I went off to Blacks. I love Craghoppers, but the silly twits have gone and put Grylls name all over them. I left them on the shelf. After buying a new belt from Woodlore, I checked out the shirt again, thought 'sod it' hit the buy button, and now I have one.

Expensive, oh yes, impulse buy, most definately, still got a 'name on it, yes, but at least Ray is respected. And am I happy? Too bloody right. I wish I'd bought this months ago, it's built to last all types of hard work, sweat, dirt, abrasive log lugging, etc, etc. Very well made. I'm even going to buy another. I very highly recommend it.

I've got two now as well.
Like the wee bits in the pockets that I can clip my wee space pen and tick remover onto.

Tom.

 

[Sniper]

Way out of my price range I'm afraid much as I like it .........unless I have a lottery win I'm afraid I shall be walking down the catwalk in this years Primark olive green cotton tee-shirt at £2.50 under my HM forces wooly pully £4.75 army surplus, on top of which I'll wear either my £9.99 fisherman's smock from Fishing Megastore, or my £25 dpm Parka with quilted removable liner....also from army surplus. It's all I can afford but does the job admirably......aye an there's the rub. I believe in buying the best I can afford.....can't afford much so I buy within my pocket allotment..(must speak to er indoors see about a raise)
I do tend to save up and spend a little more for the vitals as I see them which is a decent hammock £22.00 DD and a couple of 3m x 3m dpm tarps from a builders merchant both together under a tenner, I have a number of sharps of various types collected over the years none of which cost me more than £16 for the dearest, and I use a woolworth special £7.99 sleeping bag coupled with a £4.99 fleece liner which when used together form a very comfortable and warm sleeping system which would rival many bags in my honest but humble opinion. Yes I'm a cheapskate but only because I can't afford the great stuff however my kit is perfectly adequate and does the job. I have however had a small windfall and had to think what would be my one item to spend it on.........my decision is a handmade custom knife from a chap in the New Forest £85.00. I wouldn't knock anybody for what kit they have or don't have to me it's a personal choice to suit a personal budget. Isn't that the reason we all do the lottery to be financially secure and afford the things we want rather than just buy the things we can afford

 

[mortalmerlin]

Thanks for the review I think I will also be getting one.

If you balk at the price remember the wealth of the UK depends on M*V (Money * Velocity of transaction). That money kept in our economy is worth a lot more than 95 pounds, sent to China it's gone for good.

 

[spamel]

Nobody should pick on someone else for their kit. Yeah, we all had a bit of a laff at the string (well, some of us did!), but seriously, if you're getting out and doing it then what is the drama? I slept in blankets at the Moot, cadged from the removals blokes who moved my family back to UK. Does that make me any less of a person? Certainly not. If your kit works for you, then no worries. We'd all love the best kit, but sometimes we have to compromise. I have a lot of branded kit, bought because reviews told me it was the best at the time.

I got rid of some kit at the Moots' bring and buy sale, mainly due to having so much kit! None of it was crap though, I hope it performs as well for other people as it did for me. The Swedish Snow smocks, for instance, were bought for others but I deleted PMs and forgot who they were. They didn't get back to me so they had to go. I kept one for myself though, they are great smocks and coupled with a heavy duty woolen jumper from a surplus store and a norwegian army shirt, you'll stay warm and relatively dry in a shower or prolonged drizzle. The cotton canvas wets out, but it doesn't come through, it works similarly but not quite as well as ventile. I hope those that bought them will get good use from them and enjoy their use. 8 quid a smock is a pretty decent price I'd say!

 

[WolfCub]

I'm new to Bc UK. Several Scout Leaders on another Forum mentioned here as a good source of related knowledge, skills, ideas etc , so I had a look and joined up.

As to kit and cost. Earlier this year we had a camp for older Cubs along with the Scouts. Two "Bushcraft" experts agreed to come along and do some instruction / demos. They turned up with a few hundred £s worth of "kit" hanging off belts and bergens and even more inside ! (OK I admit to more than a little of the greeneyed monster at some of it !) My first thought was "Tarts !"

However they turned out to be brilliant teachers ( To me that's to share and pass on knowledge and skills, not just show it ) They also made the point several times that expensive kit did not make a person any more capable, simply that for some people (like themselves) the apprecition of a paticular item added to the pleasure of the activity. I fully understand this, as a Butcher I buy my own knives for work rather than use the basic but workable ones provided.

And this leads to one of the reasons I've joined here. I do enjoy bits of kit, but have limeted finance, so what I get has to do the job and be V.F.M. for me. Thats where I'm sure your assembled greater knowledge and experience can help me get better value, not waste money , and have lots more pleasure !

The above shirt is way beyond me, but some other things mentioned I will be looking out for. Priority for now is trying to find myself a basha/tarp and a hammock ... then I'd like....and maybe one of.... ?..

Hope I havn't gone too far off topic

 

[BorderReiver]

Expense doesn't always equal value but if the manufacturer/retailer has a good reputation then it's a fair bet that you get your moneys worth.

I paid what I considered to be a lot of money for Rohan shirts about 20 years ago and I'm still wearing them now. They are worn regularly and I'm not that careful with my clothes.

Although the RM shirt does seem a tad over priced, if it lasts a good length of time and is a pleasure to wear, then possibly it could work out to be a bargain.

 

[ArkAngel]

I would have to agree with most of the points on here so far.

Better gear doesn't make you a better bushcrafter, but if you have the money and you want to spend the money go for your life.

Just some of my outdoor kit. I'm not after critiques of my kit just attempting to back up my point.

Altberg boots- over £150 5 years ago and still look like new.

Berghaus Mera peak- £160 bought 15 years ago cheap as part of (previous years style, should of been £300) still waterproof but unable to clean properly and it's starting to fuzz badly.

Le Chameau leather lined wellies - £200 in a sale

Shing Knife- £100, i consider it a bargin for the type of knife it is!

5.11 shirts - £35 a pop and i have 4

I have a lot of expensive kit. I spend a lot of time outdoors (shooting, photography, walking, bushcrafting etc)

My wife and i have no kids and a fair disposable income, so out attitude is "why not?"

The kit doesn't make me a better bushcrafter, it's a personal choice.

 

[woof]

I've been following this thread with interest, and i intend to try and get a canvas shirt made up, so watch this space.

 

[rik_uk3]

I've been following this thread with interest, and i intend to try and get a canvas shirt made up, so watch this space.

Why do you need a canvas shirt?

 

[Bimble]

I made a single layer smock out of ventile (believe me if I can make one so can you!)

1. I made it to fit me well, including the hood.
2. Put a big dump pocket for my binos/map on the front.
3. Put two buttons in the right palace to stop the binos from swinging.
4. Made it long enough to cover my back when bending over.
5. Made the sleeves with tight Velcro closure and loose enough to enable the sleeves to be rolled up properly.
6. It is bomb proof, ‘literally’, you can’t break it! I’ve tried.
7. I ware it as a shirt in hot weather and a shell in cold. (I wear it constantly when outdoors)
8. It breathes and never feels clammy even if sweating heavily ‘cus it’s stiffer than ordinary cotton.
9. It cleans really easily in the field ( and country to popular belief, dries remarkably quickly)
10. It is 110% mosi/wasp/nettle/thorn/wind proof
11. It’s more than shower proof, even in quite persistent rain.
12. You can spray DEET directly onto it and not your skin.
13. It has a SF+100 rating (not a substantiate claim, but you get the Idea)

Though it’s not going to win any fashion awards it is as close to the only perfect possession I own. When you take the materials and your time into account it won’t be any cheaper than the ‘Ray’ shirt, but you made it, it fits like a glove and you grin like an idiot every time you don it.
In a word owning it is a pleasure................
I took the Blanket coat workshop at the Moot; I doubt I will ever ‘buy’ another outdoor garment. I strongly recommend making your own shirt; it will change your whole perspective on life.
Thank you Toddy, I have seen the light!:notworthy

 

[spamel]

Kit can be bought cheaper than this shirt. Dockers woolen shirts, Pendletons shirts (again, woolen!), surplus KF Shirts (Guess what they're made from? Yup, wool again!) and surplus GS Shirts (Whaddya reckon? Wool? Nah, got you that time, they're made from light cotton and fast drying too.). There are probably more, German Army shirts, American BDU's, 5.11 tactical shirts, Craghoppers shirts (Don't get the BG version, obviously, unless you're GrahamS!) and the list goes on.

Take a look around the forums, find your local TKMaxx, prowl about on eBay and search through that musty old pile of surplus gear at the local surplus store. You'll find some genuinely hard wearing, cheap kit out there. It doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg.

Saying that, if you have the money and wish to spend it on one of these shirts, then good luck to you. It's your cash, spend it as you will. It's cheaper than Mors string! (By two quid!)

 

[Aaron]

Orvis do a shirt that is just like the RM one in cut and material, £40 cheaper too. I have had one of their jackets for years and it is superb.

http://www.orvis.co.uk/store/produc...&cat_id=7368&subcat_id=7377&pf_id=160g&bhcp=1

 

[Squidders]

well that's let the cat out of the bag!

 

[craeg]

I made a single layer smock out of ventile (believe me if I can make one so can you!)

1. I made it to fit me well, including the hood.
2. Put a big dump pocket for my binos/map on the front.
3. Put two buttons in the right palace to stop the binos from swinging.
4. Made it long enough to cover my back when bending over.
5. Made the sleeves with tight Velcro closure and loose enough to enable the sleeves to be rolled up properly.
6. It is bomb proof, ‘literally’, you can’t break it! I’ve tried.
7. I ware it as a shirt in hot weather and a shell in cold. (I wear it constantly when outdoors)
8. It breathes and never feels clammy even if sweating heavily ‘cus it’s stiffer than ordinary cotton.
9. It cleans really easily in the field ( and country to popular belief, dries remarkably quickly)
10. It is 110% mosi/wasp/nettle/thorn/wind proof
11. It’s more than shower proof, even in quite persistent rain.
12. You can spray DEET directly onto it and not your skin.
13. It has a SF+100 rating (not a substantiate claim, but you get the Idea)

Though it’s not going to win any fashion awards it is as close to the only perfect possession I own. When you take the materials and your time into account it won’t be any cheaper than the ‘Ray’ shirt, but you made it, it fits like a glove and you grin like an idiot every time you don it.
In a word owning it is a pleasure................
I took the Blanket coat workshop at the Moot; I doubt I will ever ‘buy’ another outdoor garment. I strongly recommend making your own shirt; it will change your whole perspective on life.
Thank you Toddy, I have seen the light!:notworthy

Good post Bimble. I want to have a go a making one so any chance of posting some tips, pics, etc please?

Cheers
Craeg