Ray Mears Woodsman Shirt

[Barn Owl]

A wee word on the above.

I've had one for the past couple of weeks and after reading the comments about it previously held off until I had some spare cash for one.

Let me assure you this is a quality garment.
It is a dense weave cotton and pretty windproof.
I wear a 'T' or norgie type top below it and it's breathability is good too.

The stitching is perfect and it feels tough.
It's not been near any sparks or caught in the rain but i think it'll withstand a wee bit of both ok.

I would say it's 10 x better than my Craghopper shirts and 5 x better than my 5.11.

It's made in Britain and has a small Union Flag on the hem.

It's long, so no riding out of your trousers and can be worn out of them nicely.

I'm usually a large but got a medium as I didn't want it as an 'over',however I will get another in large to accommodate a warmer undershirt in Autumn/Winter.

Worth £95... I think as it's British and top quality then yes,I will be buying another.
In my opinion it's a better shirt than a Swannie and they're not cheap.

I reckon it'll last for years,that's where the vfm comes in for sure.

Perhaps someone has a more in depth review to come ?

Sorry i've no pic's and it's a wee summary,but hope it helps.
No connections to Ray or makers.

Tom.

 

[nicodiemus]

I just can't imagine paying £95 for a shirt. I baulk at spending 30 quid on a shirt. Are they really worth the scratch?

 

[JimmyT]

£95 is going it a bit Ray!
If I'm not mistaken it is a ringer for the 'Malpai' shirt made by Orvis?
Except it comes in at £36 extra....

 

[Barn Owl]

£95 is going it a bit Ray!
If I'm not mistaken it is a ringer for the 'Malpai' shirt made by Orvis?
Except it comes in at £36 extra....

Don't know about the Orvis,but hey I like it and I fund these sort of expensive purchases by selling stuff,so I'm not really out of pocket.

 

[sandbender]

Ah Tom, you've gone and opened your self up for some stick with this one

When this shirt was first announced folks on this forum were fairly critical of the price point Woodlore had chosen, I think the reasoning behind much of that criticism is that people feel that too much attention is being given over to kit, especially expensive kit that can be tied to well known bushcraft personalities.

Bushcraft for many of us is not about having 'the knife' or 'the trousers' that some bloke on TV uses, but about the knowledge in our heads and skills in our hands.

We're not insular, we want others to enjoy this hobby too, and there is a feeling that if bushcraft starts to become about 'getting the right gear together' and not actually being out there and trying to make do with what comes to hand or what you can afford, then the hobby of bushcraft becomes something else, something less good.

With that said, I think many of us are too quick to criticize what we consider to be expensive gear, if we all wore ex army fatigues and used mora training knifes then I think the forum would be the less for it. If Tony ever released the figures I bet that hits on the 'Kit' and 'edged tools' section of this forum would be double the number of hits on the 'flora and fauna' or 'bushcraft skills' section, most of us enjoy reading about new and interesting doo dads even if we never intend to buy them.



Oh and incidentally, I own two of these shirts

Let me assure you this is a quality garment...

It is very well made, although the top press stud on one shirt fell off as soon as I put it on.

It is a dense weave cotton and pretty windproof...

Very heavy duty cotton, good feel to it.

I would say it's 10 x better than my Craghopper shirts and 5 x better than my 5.11..

I can't compare it to a Craghopper, but it is far superior to the 5.11 shirts, both in quality of materials and construction.

It's long, so no riding out of your trousers and can be worn out of them nicely...

It has a really nice cut, it is long and I can wear it with a kilt and not worry about 'chaffing'

Worth £95...In my opinion it's a better shirt than a Swannie...

I don't think they compare, the Swannies are made of wool, much better for the northern European climate, but this looks smarter

I reckon it'll last for years

At this price it had better

 

[Kepis]

if we all wore ex army fatigues and used mora training knifes then I think the forum would be the less for it.

I don't, IMO more emphasis would be placed on discussions about actually acquiring knowledge to do something and then people actually getting away from their PC screens and comfy chairs to the Woods/Moor/Sea Shore and placing that knowledge into practice.

I don't subscribe to the philosophy of "all the gear & no idea", but do subscribe to the philosophies of "know more, carry less" & "knowledge weighs nothing"

 

[Barn Owl]

Ach,I just felt it was time for someone to admit to having one
And it is a good shirt.

 

[Tony]

Tom, thanks for taking the time to write about the shirt and give us your impression about it, it sounds like a hardy piece of kit.

Good little review in the appropriate forum

 

[fred gordon]

Ach,I just felt it was time for someone to admit to having one
And it is a good shirt.

Good for you! We may not all agree with each other but its great to see honesty. Perhaps others will now own up. By the way I don't have one but most of the stuff I have bought from the RM website has been first rate quality and the speed of delivery to my remoter part of Scotrland has yet to be bettered.

 

[bigjackbrass]

£95 is going it a bit Ray!
If I'm not mistaken it is a ringer for the 'Malpai' shirt made by Orvis?
Except it comes in at £36 extra....

Can't comment on the Woodlore shirt purely because I don't own one, but I do have a couple of the Orvis Malpai shirts and can give you an idea of their suitability for bushcrafting:

The cuffs have two buttons, but not to allow any adjustment of how tightly the cuff can fasten. The only option is "quite tight" and you'll have trouble rolling the sleeves up very far.

The more recent of my two shirts is not made in the USA and seems to be a softer canvas, perhaps the result of garment washing. Still a hard-wearing shirt, but increasingly something for the high street instead of the ranch. The first shirt I bought had to be returned because the breast pockets were sewn on at different heights, so quality may not be all it should be. Roomy fit and decent pockets, although a bellows design would be more practical.

The Malpais are very nice for what they are (nicer still if you keep checking the Sale section of the Orvis site ) but I'd be surprised if they measured up against the Woodlore shirt as a working garment, perhaps justifying the extra money. Thanks for the review, Barn Owl.

 

[JimmyT]

Hey Owl!
Sorry if it came off like I was having a dig - I seem to have more boots and jackets than you can shake a stick at, and there have been times when I've practically handed my wages over to Tamarack!
It just struck me as being a bit over the odds price wise, and as on the Ray Mears site there is a load of blurb thrown in about Ray 'designing his own exclusive range of clothing' and also about the 'unique bespoke garment' which he has has developed to his own precise specifications etc, and I just thought it strongly resembled the Orvis shirt.

 

[Barn Owl]

Hey Owl!
Sorry if it came off like I was having a dig - I seem to have more boots and jackets than you can shake a stick at, and there have been times when I've practically handed my wages over to Tamarack!
It just struck me as being a bit over the odds price wise, and as on the Ray Mears site there is a load of blurb thrown in about Ray 'designing his own exclusive range of clothing' and also about the 'unique bespoke garment' which he has has developed to his own precise specifications etc, and I just thought it strongly resembled the Orvis shirt.

No worries Jimmy...that's what the forums for,everyones thoughts and opinions.
Cheers,
Tom.

 

[Wayland]

I've recently parted with a fair bit of dosh for a Bison shirt and it suits it's purpose very well.

As such I do not consider it to be expensive even though my bank manager might disagree.

I think the important consideration is value.

If something does a job well and lasts a long time then it is good value.

If something is the same in all respects as something that costs a lot less then it is poor value.

As the first of these measurements is highly subjective then there will be room for debate on that topic,

The second measure has yet to be proved by someone with both shirts.

 

[Mikey P]

I think we're sort of forgetting the 'value' aspect here. I'll give you an example:

I have a Polar heart-rate monitor that I bought 5 years ago. It cost me 230 quid and lots of people said I was mad. It is able to collect data from bike sensors as well as altitude, temp, heart rate, etc. It can run interval training, it's waterproof, downloads to a computer so I can analyse my training and keep a long-term record - and it works really well.; however, I did not make the decision lightly as 230 quid is a lot of initial investment money.

Recently, after 5 years use, I damaged the case and it is now no longer waterproof, nor is it economical to repair. I'll need to get a new one and I just balked again at the price for a similar standard system. However, I did a cost-benefit analysis on the old one:

Cost: 230 quid
Use: I reckon 5 days a week, 48 weeks a year, over 5 years: that's 5 x 48 x 5 = 1200 times used.

That's a cost to me of 0.2 pence per use - each use usually 45 to 60 mins on average. so, making a conservative estimate, that's 0.0067 pence/minute. I'd say that's good value and it doesn't even start to include the benefits to my fitness and the pleasure I've had using it.

So, what's the point of the rambling rubbish I've just written?

If the guy who's just bought a Ray Mears shirt at 95 quid has that shirt for a number of years and uses it regularly, it actually turns out to be a good investment. You can trade this against buying cheaper, less durable items which you have to go through the inconvenience of having to replace more often. Again, it doesn't count the pleasure of being outside - can you quantify that?

It's up to the individual to decide whether the quality and durability of the garment is worth the cost (if the garment was rubbish, of course it wouldn't be worth 95 quid!).

The bottom line is it's not worth paying a lot of money for something you rarely use but it is worth paying a bit extra for that bit of gear which is regularly worn/used in pursuit of a pleasurable hobby.

The only flaw to the above argument is that you could effectively use it to persuade yourself to buy anything.

Damn...:twak:

 

[Jedadiah]

I just like to take a moment and congratulate everyone who has contributed to this thread. From Barn Owl for his initial review through all the other contributers. After the first thread i read concerning this shirt a while back, i thought 'here we go again', but no, you have all used this forum for what it is supposed to be used for and that is experience and opinion, not mudslinging and digging at contemporary consumer culture and the mighty 'Woodlore Lucre'.

If i could afford one, i'd have one, but that is my problem and no-one elses, especially not Woodlores!

I'd rep you all if i could. It's refreshing to see this positive attitude, keep it up guy's. :You_Rock_

 

[Aaron]

I agree often these threads to degenerate into everyone slagging each other, RM and Woodlore off in no particular order - not this one though. Nice one.

 

[Rebel]

I really wonder if you get 95 quids worth of wear out this shirt. It's not organic fair trade cotton so there's isn't any added conscience value.

If I buy say a Craghoppers cotton shirt for 15 quid in T K Maxx or a similar canvas shirt I look fine in them, they button all the way down so can be used as a light jacket in hot weather and they wear well. I've had Levi denim shirts for years and wear them until they fall off my back. (I know they are mostly made in China and the cotton is probably GM.)

Arguably the Ray Mears shirt is a fine shirt and I would probably enjoy wearing one but at that price I'd be more worried about damaging it than a cheaper one. Nothing wrong with the shirt IMO (except that I'd prefer it to button all the way) just the price. If I could afford one I'm still not sure it ticks all the right boxes for me.

Hope I haven't degenerated the thread. I do sometimes buy expensive kit because I see the value in it, like the expensive Garmin GPS I recently bought. Some people can't see the point in spending as much as I did and are happy without one or with the cheapest model. Whatever your opinion of GPS though it is quite easy to analyse what you are paying for in extra features. You just have to decide if you want those features and are willing to pay for them.

Similarly with knives. You can buy a cheap Mora and it does the job. Others pay more for a better knife and generally it's easy to see what it is that's better but then the knife reaches a certain peak of quality and it becomes much harder to figure out what extra features it has that make it cost so much money (I won't mention any brands ).

With outdoor cotton canvas shirts after they reach about the 40 quid mark (about the cost of a 5.11) I start to wonder what extras I'm paying for.

This isn't a slagging of, it's constructive criticism I hope.

 

[Barn Owl]

As I said in my first post, I bought the shirt after selling some gear,therefore it wasn't really hard on the finances.
I couldn't justify (i.e ,get it by Mrs) before that.

I like the style as I also wear pullover type smocks.

As for damaging it,well it's the battlescars on your gear that gives it character and provides memories

I know it is expensive but I think it will provide good vfm.
I mean it's much the same price as woollen shirts (and I do own one) and they seem to be accepted without denegration.

Cheers,
Tom.

 

[featherstick]

Interesting thread. By and large I agree that you break it down into pence per use - the fewer the pence the better the value. However I had a look at the RM shop site and it's easy to see who they are aiming this shirt at. The shirt is "stunning", "classically styled", and has "many stylish features". I shall be off to the army surplus tomorrow, where I'll get a stunning, stylishly featured Bundeswehr shirt for 6.99!

 

[firecrest]

Though I wouldnt pay £95 on a shirt, I do think in some ways we have lost touch with clothes pricing owing to the cheap exploitative labour we use to manufacture highstreet goods. If you pay less than £5 for a shirt (eg primark) then somebody somewhere is being shafted, and it isnt the retailer. I commend woodlore for using british industry, but for 95 quid Id expect a shirt to be made at a tailors for me!