Preparedness, do any practise it?

[scoops_uk]

Good point about evolution taking it's course, I guess the baddies would have a rare old time playing with eachother until their numbers were depleted.

I guess my plan is as much about getting out of the way and laying low as anything else. Personally, I'm not sure I could cope with being hidden away in a boarded up room always listening for noises outside the door.

You mention collecting drinking water - that's probably your biggest problem to deal with. Can you carry enough often enough? What about getting a bore hole drilled now just in case?

You can easily provision a small boat for several months (in fact it's common practice) and water makers/coastal streams are common enough to refill an onboard tank. However, as you point out, the weather is my big problem, one reason why my plan involves a boat that can be beached or hidden away up a shallow estuary.

I am not convinced that weapons are a way forward. Accounts of pirate attacks off the coast of Somalia, where these things are really happening, suggest that being armed and attempting to fight out of a situation doesn't have a success rate much different to more passive strategies. I suggest, in the interests of the thread, we agree that not being found is the best defence and leave the "ordinance" or lack thereof as a moot point.

Swagman - of course we're overreacting, but as you admit it's something everybody probably thinks about at one time or another. I think the fear of people thinking we're "survival nuts" stems from the bad press "survivalism" received following incidents like Hungerford. But it doesn't take a big stretch of the imagination to see bird flu or a fuel crisis or a natural disaster creating a situation where part of your worst case scenario plan wouldn't be of use.

Scoops

 

[scoops_uk]

Plus as Eric rightly points out, it's a bit of fun for a Sunday night ponder

Scoops

 

[spamel]

James Herbert wrote a book called 48, based in 1948 after Hitler drops the blood bomb infecting just abot everybody with a slow killing disease with no known cure. A certain blood group is unnaffected and we follow such a person who is trying to avoid the bad guys who want him to use in a full blood transfusion, as they think this will cure them.

We see how he usesthe dregs of fuel in vehicles left abandoned to f uel one vehicle up, which he leaves in the middle of all the cars on the road but with a possible means of escape, and he has various addresses in and around the London area where he has stocks and supplies.

I read 48 a long time ago, but I always think of that book when threads such as this come up. I reckon if you could keep moving around a network of buildings, this would help in you not being discovered. For those who have family in the immediate area, they could use their houses aswell as their own.

 

[Eric_Methven]

James Herbert wrote a book called 48, based in 1948 after Hitler drops the blood bomb infecting just abot everybody with a slow killing disease with no known cure.

Sounds good. I've just ordered it.

Synopsis
The unmissable new action-thriller from one of the biggest names in British fiction -- the No 1 bestselling author of The Ghosts of Sleath, Haunted, The Magic Cottage and The Rats. As millions of readers around the world will testify, James Herbert's ability to shock and enthral is matchless. Now, in '48, he has surpassed his own remarkable achievements to create an electrifying new novel of pure heart-stopping action and invention that will take readers to new levels of terror and excitement. In 1945, Hitler unleashes the Blood Death on Britain as his final act of vengeance. Hoke, an American pilot and one of a tiny minority with a rare blood group unaffected by the deadly disease, has survived alone among the debris and the dead of London for three years. Now, in 1948, a slow-dying group of Fascist Blackshirts believe their only hope is a transfusion of blood from one of Hoke's kind. Ever more desperate as their deaths approach, they're after his blood.

 

[British Red]

There are some great books around that explore this subject and pose some interesting moral dilemmas - an American based one but still a great read is "Lucifers Hammer" by Niven and Pournelle - of course John Wyndham did some great stuff with "The Kraken Wakes" and "Day of the Triffids".

By far the best lately though is a little known book "There Falls No Shadow". Set in Scotland and written by a very knowledgeable guy (David Crossley).

You can get it from Amazon but its cheaper direct from the author here

http://www.tfns.co.uk/there_falls_no_shadow.htm

A dark, disturbing and very interesting read featuring a lot of the topics covered in this thread. Written by an ex soldier who has seen societal collapse in other countries. Well worth the buy in my view.

Red

 

[Eric_Methven]

Another excellent book is Alas Babylon. Written in the fifties it's still a cracking read.

Eric

 

[British Red]

And "No Blade of Grass" - similar time period and a good plot line too!

Also Stephen Kings "The Stand" of course

Red

 

[falling rain]

I didn't have you down as someone who would be into all this malarky Eric. I'm Quite surprised really. Whatever tweaks your dials I suppose.

 

[Gailainne]

Talking of books, I think another very good survival tool would be an extensive library, in "The Stand" I seem to remember one of the characters preps his books with mothballs and double bags them before hiding them away, but takes the first vol of "How things work" as collateral.

Stephen

 

[Eric_Methven]

I didn't have you down as someone who would be into all this malarky Eric. I'm Quite surprised really. Whatever tweaks your dials I suppose.

Sounds like I'm a survival nutter doesn't it? That's only because it's discussion is relevant to this thread. In reality I've thought about this stuff but it takes up only a tiny portion of my life.

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!

Eric

 

[British Red]

Talking of books, I think another very good survival tool would be an extensive library, in "The Stand" I seem to remember one of the characters preps his books with mothballs and double bags them before hiding them away, but takes the first vol of "How things work" as collateral.

Stephen

Nope, thats "Lucifers Hammer" Stephen - a great book!

Red

 

[Greg]

'Children of the dust' is another good book, it is based in the UK during and after a nuclear war. but its revelance could quite easily come into its own if a number of dirty bombs were to be detonated.
Chris Ryan did that TV show last year showing how he would cope with certain natural / man-made disasters again alot of good tips.

I have really enjoyed this thread, thanks guys.

 

[Yonderer]

I believe in being prepared for unforeseen circumstances, especially natural disasters or power outages. Being without an alternate source of heat for even a day when it’s –40 ain’t fun!

I actually like being as self reliant as I can anyway, and from what I’ve seen, counting on the government to help you out in the event of a major crisis is naïve at best. I’ve always liked being independent and not having to rely on anyone else, or at the very least keeping that reliance to a minimum. I figure that ultimately it's my responsibility to keep my family safe.

I live in a rural area on 10 ¾ acres. We’ve planted fruit trees plus we plant a garden every year. We have a greenhouse so we can grow tomatoes, cucumbers and other frost sensitive vegetables. There are also a lot of wild edibles on the place, both flora and fauna.

We make our own preserves and can any extra meat we have. Canned meat is handy to have on hand anyhow if only for the convenience of being able to prepare a quick meal.
I hunt birds, deer and moose in the fall. We buy our pork, chicken and eggs from a local farmer friend. I can’t remember the last time I bought meat in a grocery store.

My home is set up so I can heat it with either wood or natural gas. I have it set up so that we can live in the basement during a major power outage in the winter. That way we only need to heat the basement, which is easier because it’s insulated on three sides by the earth (it’s a walk-in basement, the house is built into a hill). My land is mostly treed, plus the land to the south of me is wooded Crown (public) land so firewood isn’t a problem. I have both electric and hand well pumps to ensure that I have ready access to water.
I have two generators that I use for power outages in the summer to keep the freezers and the fridge working.
We have several gas and oil lanterns for light and we also have our propane and white gas camp stoves that can be pressed into service if needed.

We keep enough gear in our vehicles to ensure we'll be comfortable in the event of a breakdown until rescue arrives.
I often work alone out in the bush in all seasons, too, so I make sure I have the necessary supplies to make sure I get home if I have to walk to get help or if I have to wait until help arrives.

I don't know if this makes me seem weird in some people's eyes or not, but it does give me a sense of well-being.

 

[British Red]

Not weird to me but then I thought I recognised the avatar

Howdy Orion

Red

 

[wilekayote]

If you store water in plastic jerry cans in case your water supply has problems how often should you refresh it?

 

[Yonderer]

Hey Red!

wilekayote, I don't store much drinking water because I have my own well, but I've read that water treated with unscented chlorine bleach (8 drops/gallon) can be stored for up to six months. Personally I'd change it out more often.

 

[galew]

Yes it is an excellent book, it gets you over the idea that you can't survive a nuclear war and also has good perpareness tips and ideas.

 

[galew]

How many people here can knit or crochet? Probably not that many considering the membership. It could be useful to know, unless you intend to wear buckskin and have all of your slleping gear made of the same![/quote]

I learned to do both when growing up on a farm in Kansas. Neither is hard to learn, I also learned spinning and weaving, but if I needed to make clothing I would use skins, much easier and quicker. It according to most takes a couple of months of spinning to make enough to weave or knit/crochet a suit of clothing.
I am Male and 67 years old

 

[galew]

I think a sensible series of discussions on this subject is something BCUK is missing, but they do tend to degenerate.

What has always nagged me is that when law and order collapse you always seem to get get gangs of well armed looters/militia. I'm not convinced that it is possible to fortify a house to withstand a sustained (several hours) attack. Frankly, a typical 7.5 tonne truck/JCB can be driven through most domestic walls. You would also need to be geographically isolated, difficult in the UK, to avoid discovery and chances are if you're linked to a road you will be discovered by people who want what you have sooner or later.

Scoops

From one of the chapters of the book I am in the process of writing Run or hide
Too many have the mistaken belief that they will be able to withstand a concerned effort of a group to take over their location, either their home or retreat. My contention is if there is a large group and they have any survival skills at all, it will be almost impossible to defend your location. So as I have stated before if your retreat is not invisible, so that it is not discovered, then it is best to run if it can be done safely. Let them get what they can find, and then is a few weeks come back and check if they have left. In most cases the only thing that will be missing is the food, You should have your food securely in several different locations, In this way the most you will lose at any time will be maybe a three months supply. Most of the scavengers will use up your food and then move on to another target. So if there are 10 or so, they will have used your food in less that a month taking the last weeks supply with them. Even if you have just opened a new cache if it can be resealed without leaving a trace, only bring back a months supply or so at a time. That will limit the amount that you will lose if your retreat is discovered. In each of your food caches you should also have your basic survival needs, including a weapon, pack, clothes etc. As you may not be able to take much more than the clothes on your back when you run. None of your caches should be within sight of your retreat and should be at least 100 yards or more away, this will allow you access even if your retreat is occupied by hostiles at the time.
Now why do I say that you should run if it appears that your retreat has been discovered? With today’s weapons, you are an easy target at 500 yards, so unless there is no cover within 500 yards, that that is unlikely, any time you poke your head up to take a shot at them, it is likely that they can get a shot at you. They have the advantage in that they know where you are, and they can move around, so to acquire a target it takes you longer giving them a second or more edge each time. So if there are two or more that are looking down their sights near the location where you will pop up, how many times do you think that it will take before one of them gets lucky? If you get off 10 aimed shots, before they get you, it would be extremely unlikely. So you hit three or four of them, but they got you, is what you want. You are still dead and now no one is there to protect your family, and it will be very unlikely that any of them will be alive by the time the hostiles have used up your supplies and left. Sorry, that is just the reality of things. They may even become part of the food supply.
Don’t think, well I am good, so I can defend myself, Okay, lets say you are good and you wound or kill 7 or eight before they get lucky, the end is still the same. You are dead or will be shortly. I know it is not the macho thing to do, but it is always better to run away from a fight than to stay, especially if the odds are against you, and in most cases they will be. If your survival skills are any good at all, you will be able to make it for a couple of weeks out of your retreat, especially if you follow my advice and have several food caches around.
Word of advice, if you do run, keep going away from your retreat for at least 5 miles, if not more 10 would be better. If they find your retreat empty but find women clothes, they might just decide to track your family down for a little fun. But they will probably not waste their time if they believe you have headed for parts unknown, and lose interest in 5 miles or less, but to be safe, 10 is better. So set up camp 10 miles away ( a fireless camp) and then in a day or two, you alone go back to one of the food caches and bring back food. I would replenish my bug out kits and have them ready at the retreat in case you do need to run, grab them on the way out and you have your three day supply to get you by until you can get to one of the caches. If done this way, you have taken the least risk for the family. Unless your mate is equally trained in survival skills, the likely hood of the family surviving if you are killed is slim, so you must keep on your toes at all times, it truly is a matter of life or death in a survival situation. I know that I have just complicated the survival planning that you have been formulating as you have read just far, but if this scenario is not covered, then you might have done everything else in vain. It should be obvious now that your backdoor must be situated where you can make a safe exit without being seen from the front. It should also be obvious that you need to plan for the possibility of having to make a run for it and therefore have things ready for that possibility. If these things are not in your planning, then make them a part of it now.

 

[FerlasDave]

this is a subject my family laugh at me for, i have a kit prepared with rations, survival equipments, climbing gear, shelter clothing and first aid prepared. i thin it all comes from watching too many disaster movies, but at the heart of them all is a logic that it might one day happen. and i will hopefully be prepared if it does.