Please help me build my first knife
- Thread starter smojo
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Sorry Dave I stand corrected, but filing a heattreated blade isnt good for your file teeth.a heat treated blade should NOT be harder than files, but would be impractical to try and use files to remove metal from it! If the blade is harder than a file then it would be over 64RC normally, which in a blade would be way too hard
I'm looking at the handle design now and how it meets the hilt of the blade. Being a short handle there's a danger of cutting my forefinger whilst holding it. The shape of the blade blank won't allow me to add any sort of extended part to the handle or deep cutaway to protect me so I guess all I can do is leave a small area where the edge isn't ground. But here's the question - looking at some knives, there is often a small notch or indent ground into the blade where it meet the handle. Is there a re function for this and why? I want to get the design as best I can before attempting any grinding.
Here's the photo of latest stage - scales cut down and levelled and blade blank rough sanded to remove burrs
Here's the photo of latest stage - scales cut down and levelled and blade blank rough sanded to remove burrs
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you can add a bolster mate . http://www.english-handmade-knives.co.uk/acatalog/Bolsters_sometimes_know_as_ferules.html
I get through a lot of files You can get files that are hard enough (Vallorbe make them) but they are very expensive!
I don't know that the drum sander will work very well, but you may as well give it a try if you have nothing else. Do you have ANYTHING in way of motorised grinding kit? If you can't grind the bevels yourself then it might be worth sending it to somebody to do for you. In any case, do it before you fit a handle because it will be a swine to do afterwards!
The notch you mention is normally just a handy way to start the sharpening process from, because you will often see the start of a ground bevel being missed on a stone (I've seen it on a lot of scandi ground blades especially). It can also be used as a way of masking slightly mismatched plunge cuts. The easier sharpening is a reason to put it on, the downside is when cutting string, where it tends to drop into the groove and not cut.
Handle shape. I like asymmetrical handles on knives that are ONLY used in one grip position, like some kitchen knives. On most general purpose knives you will switch between several grips and the more biased towards one position the shape is, then the worse it will feel in another. Finger grooves are the absolute worst for that and for blisters generally.
Don't bother with a metal bolster/guard unless you are able to drill the blank, or at least silver solder well. You can always incorporate a guard into the handle shaping
Starting from a heat treated but unground blank has made your life a lot harder than it should be!
You can get files that are hard enough (Vallorbe make them) but they are very expensive!I don't know that the drum sander will work very well, but you may as well give it a try if you have nothing else. Do you have ANYTHING in way of motorised grinding kit? If you can't grind the bevels yourself then it might be worth sending it to somebody to do for you. In any case, do it before you fit a handle because it will be a swine to do afterwards!
The notch you mention is normally just a handy way to start the sharpening process from, because you will often see the start of a ground bevel being missed on a stone (I've seen it on a lot of scandi ground blades especially). It can also be used as a way of masking slightly mismatched plunge cuts. The easier sharpening is a reason to put it on, the downside is when cutting string, where it tends to drop into the groove and not cut.
Handle shape. I like asymmetrical handles on knives that are ONLY used in one grip position, like some kitchen knives. On most general purpose knives you will switch between several grips and the more biased towards one position the shape is, then the worse it will feel in another. Finger grooves are the absolute worst for that and for blisters generally.
Don't bother with a metal bolster/guard unless you are able to drill the blank, or at least silver solder well. You can always incorporate a guard into the handle shaping
Starting from a heat treated but unground blank has made your life a lot harder than it should be!
build or get a forge you are bound to want to make more knives anyway lol . Dave I forgot it was h.t that would be a badger to drill
Thanks again for excellent advice. Got a Dremel drill, a cheap metal grinder/cutter (scary and not easy to control) and also just got a two wheel B & Decker benchgrinder given. The wheels are almost new but smallish radius - about 4 inch I think from memory. I have little experience using it, just tried to regrind some old wood-working chisels and didn't do a great job. Also thinking that the small radius will give it a bit of a hollow grind and I want a scandi. I suppose I can do the rough grind with that, then finish it flat again by hand with files or stones. I'd really like to build the whole thing myself rather than get someone else to grind it. I might have to try rig up some sort of jig that will hold the knife at correct angle to the grinder and practise on some scrap first. Would hate to mess it up. A forge is out of the question. Thanks also for the heads up on the handle shape so it makes sense to just make a smooth symmetrical handle now. Easier too!
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Look on here for a thread . My bevel filing jig. It's a easy build I have built it and it's a god send for getting bevels tidy .
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I have seen a few jigs rigged up for angle and bench grinders, but I learned to grind freehand so they never appeal to me. Do as Paddy suggests and search around for grinding jigs and see what you can adapt to your setup. I personally love angle grinders and although they are scary to start with, they can be very accurate and useful tools with practice. I use them when regrinding the edges on billhooks and sometimes axes too, also before I got a 'proper' belt grinder I used one to rough out the bevels on knives too. The key is to use a brand new grinding wheel, draw the grinder towards you (pushing it cuts faster but pulling it has more control) and keep an eye on the temperature by touching the blade frequently with a wet sponge.
As for a hollow grind when you want a scandi. If you grind a hollow to virtually an edge (say 0.5mm thick), you can then finish off on a coarse sharpening stone because you only have two points of contact and so less metal to remove. Before I got a jig made up for grinding tiny blades like carving knives on my belt grinder, this is exactly how I did them. It's also ho I grind my tangs flat, I use an angle grinder to hollow grind the tang before using the belt grinder to flatten, it makes life easier
As for a hollow grind when you want a scandi. If you grind a hollow to virtually an edge (say 0.5mm thick), you can then finish off on a coarse sharpening stone because you only have two points of contact and so less metal to remove. Before I got a jig made up for grinding tiny blades like carving knives on my belt grinder, this is exactly how I did them. It's also ho I grind my tangs flat, I use an angle grinder to hollow grind the tang before using the belt grinder to flatten, it makes life easier
Best advice you've ever past on to me Mr budd was getting to grips with an angle grinder . Fastest way to strip steel .
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I've never used an angle grinder for shaping a blade but can echo the comments about learning to use on. They cut and grind so fast that you can be quite delicate with them - think of trying to stroke a feather without distorting the shape. With care you can remove a single layer of paint from steel without taking off the layer underneath. Patience is the key and taking a break when your arms and hands start to go numb.
I also use a dreamel with speedclic discs with stock removal knives for getting in and around the intricate places
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Glad you found the advice helpful They are great tools, probably the most useful tool in my pretty well kitted out workshop!
When you hold the angle grinder the wheel is cutting at the edge furthest from your body. That's assuming that you are right handed and have the body of the machine in your right hand and the handle in your left hand (reverse if a lefty). if you pull it towards you then you are stroking the metal with the flat side of the circumference and is very gentle. f you push it away then it cuts on the outer edge and digs in harder
I use thin cutting disks for cutting but you MUST NOT stray from dead straight or they can shatter at high speed. The standard cutting discs are more robust but take 3 times as long with a great deal more heat generated
Grinding discs are for hogging out steel and depending on how worn they are, they can produce anything from a 3" diameter hollow grind to something akin to a 14" hollow grind. Brand new discs are good for regrinding bevels on heat treated tools
Flapdiscs will give a flatter or more convex surface to bevels than the hollows of a hard wheel. The coarse (40 grit) remove metal almost as fast as grinding discs, but are 4x the price and wear out faster. The finer grits (80 and 120) are great for smoothing out grinding marks and blending nicer curves, also good for a finished texture if you like that on tools. Use a NEW 40grit or 60 grit followed by a NEW 120 for sharpening garden/woodland tools such as non-carving axes, hooks, slashers, etc. If you strop off the burr from a 120grit it will near as dam it shave! These wear at the outer edge of the wheel and become dull there a long time before the leaves of abrasive have worn down. So to prolong the life I use a cutting action (as though using a cutting disc) into the surface of a worn out grinding disc, this reduces the diameter by a couple of mm but exposes a fresh cutting edge
scotchbright flapwheel things are really good for a coarse satin finish after the `120 flapdisc on metal surfaces too.
When I first started getting into knifemaking (back in the 1990's), several books (all American) said dremels were indispensable, so I bought one. Hardly ever used it! I find the discs wear out too fast and have limited depth/length of cut as well as being delicate. Cutting out over sized with an angle grinder and then grinding out the contours is much much faster! I find the sanding drums pretty useful for things though, especially in place of a round file on hardened steel
They are great tools, probably the most useful tool in my pretty well kitted out workshop! When you hold the angle grinder the wheel is cutting at the edge furthest from your body. That's assuming that you are right handed and have the body of the machine in your right hand and the handle in your left hand (reverse if a lefty). if you pull it towards you then you are stroking the metal with the flat side of the circumference and is very gentle. f you push it away then it cuts on the outer edge and digs in harder
I use thin cutting disks for cutting but you MUST NOT stray from dead straight or they can shatter at high speed. The standard cutting discs are more robust but take 3 times as long with a great deal more heat generated
Grinding discs are for hogging out steel and depending on how worn they are, they can produce anything from a 3" diameter hollow grind to something akin to a 14" hollow grind. Brand new discs are good for regrinding bevels on heat treated tools
Flapdiscs will give a flatter or more convex surface to bevels than the hollows of a hard wheel. The coarse (40 grit) remove metal almost as fast as grinding discs, but are 4x the price and wear out faster. The finer grits (80 and 120) are great for smoothing out grinding marks and blending nicer curves, also good for a finished texture if you like that on tools. Use a NEW 40grit or 60 grit followed by a NEW 120 for sharpening garden/woodland tools such as non-carving axes, hooks, slashers, etc. If you strop off the burr from a 120grit it will near as dam it shave! These wear at the outer edge of the wheel and become dull there a long time before the leaves of abrasive have worn down. So to prolong the life I use a cutting action (as though using a cutting disc) into the surface of a worn out grinding disc, this reduces the diameter by a couple of mm but exposes a fresh cutting edge
scotchbright flapwheel things are really good for a coarse satin finish after the `120 flapdisc on metal surfaces too.
When I first started getting into knifemaking (back in the 1990's), several books (all American) said dremels were indispensable, so I bought one. Hardly ever used it! I find the discs wear out too fast and have limited depth/length of cut as well as being delicate. Cutting out over sized with an angle grinder and then grinding out the contours is much much faster! I find the sanding drums pretty useful for things though, especially in place of a round file on hardened steel
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thanks again Dave, so much to take in. Been looking at grinding jigs for using a file and came across this young man's method. Pretty rough and ready but I like the fact it's simple. I'm not aiming to be a master knife-maker, just want to produce a few fairly decent ones for my own satisfaction so this might get me through for my first knife. There are some much more elaborate versions but if I make one of those I'll spend more time making a jig than the knife! So I'm gonna try make my own version of his.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FvW6kOAWHY
Next question, what is the most popular angle for a scandi? The blade is about 3.5mm thick, 23mm wide at it's widest and about 60mm long.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FvW6kOAWHY
Next question, what is the most popular angle for a scandi? The blade is about 3.5mm thick, 23mm wide at it's widest and about 60mm long.
that's a neat idea, nice and simple The only trouble is that a file won't touch your blade. I expect you could rig something up with an angle grinder by inserting a length of threaded rod in the spare handle hole on the grinder.
btw, when you are using a file on steel (or anything else really), it only cuts on the PUSH stroke. If you pull it backwards you damage the teeth and ruin the file. f you do that on one of my courses, having been instructed not to, you get told off once and then I start throwing things at you!
The only trouble is that a file won't touch your blade. I expect you could rig something up with an angle grinder by inserting a length of threaded rod in the spare handle hole on the grinder.btw, when you are using a file on steel (or anything else really), it only cuts on the PUSH stroke. If you pull it backwards you damage the teeth and ruin the file. f you do that on one of my courses, having been instructed not to, you get told off once and then I start throwing things at you!
here is my one .
.
and here is what I managed today
even with a trapped root nerve in my back . jigs make life easier but there is nothing like putting bevels on with a hammer and finding them to be nice and neat
. and here is what I managed today
even with a trapped root nerve in my back . jigs make life easier but there is nothing like putting bevels on with a hammer and finding them to be nice and neat
thanks again. still thinking how I can do it. each method will require a different jig to be made so I need to figure which will work first - angle grinder (a bit uncontrollable for me), drill and sanding drum, file or bench grinder. got my brass rod for handle pins now so can be working on that.
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