Petition to make Bushcraft Legal in England

[ANDYRAF]

Well I had reply E-mailled yesterday from 10 Downing Street.
the response is at http://www.pm.gov.uk/page15826.asp
Details of the petition are at http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/wildcamp/

I cannot say I fully understand it as I don't speak doubletalk.

Mods if this is in wrong area many apologies, feel free to shift it, thank you.

 

[Tony]

Be happy that they're opening up loads of coastal areas but you're not going to get a change of law that allows wildcamping/access like Scotland.

I think that's the core of it

 

[ANDYRAF]

Cheers Tony, I wasn't sure what they meant about openning up the coastal areas does this mean possibly to wild camping and how deep inland is a coastal area?

 

[Tony]

Umm, I don't think so, although there's more likelihood of being able to it's more a case of having a path around the coast and those that own the land allowing people to walk over it as long as it's against the coast. This is much more a right to roam than open access which is what we would need to use the land for camping.

most of the cost is already accessible, I think there's about 30% that's excluded by private ownership. So, in some respects it's not a lot they're actual changing, although i expect that from a political point of view it's a nightmare. Even with the access being tabled there's still years before it will all come about, paths will need to be built, people compensated (probably).

In some ways there's a little give in the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 and i think that many of them are trying to find ways of interpreting that to get the results of access rather than changing the law, although I could be wrong

I can see that walkers/ramblers will get more freedom in the future, which will benifit us greatly, but i can't see true freedom on par with Scotland for a very very long time

 

[ANDYRAF]

Thanks Tony, I think I have it now, nothing changes as the coast path pretty much circles Cornwall.

 

[Tony]

Umm, yeah It's worth keeping an eye on though as you just never know what the future holds. One of the things we need to do is use what we've got, if we don't that will get taken as being unused. You can have fires etc on the beaches unless it states otherwise.

 

[robin wood]

"Currently without the landowners concent it is illegal to wild camp on the moors, mountains, National Parks and MOD land. It is time to give people the same rights as those given North of the Border in Scotland to allow them to wild camp in these places without threat of legal action."

Do I understand the petition was asking for the right to wild camp in National Parks? and MOD land? What all of it, like my back garden? and the firing ranges? Kinder scout would be covered with campers and beer cans if this was allowed. Its' one thing in an inaccessible place with low density population and another when that place is within an hours drive of major population centers.

 

[ANDYRAF]

Sorry Robin the petition had to be broad spectrum. If we put one place out of bounds they'd have put ten so it had to all.

 

[Twoflower]

The link on this page to the response, although correct, doesn't work ... but the link from the petition page, which exactly the same, does. Government conspiricy?

I think it'll be a long long time before wild camping will be allowed in England and even then there will probably be massive restrictions as to what would be allowed. Lets just be happy that the Marine Bill is going through parliment.

 

[Tadpole]

The link on this page to the response, although correct, doesn't work ... but the link from the petition page, which exactly the same, does. Government conspiricy?

I think it'll be a long long time before wild camping will be allowed in England and even then there will probably be massive restrictions as to what would be allowed. Lets just be happy that the Marine Bill is going through parliment.

They are not quite the same links
from this webpage
http://www.pm.gov.uk/page15826.asp

http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page15826.asp
From the government page

Let's all spell paranoia together

 

[Twoflower]

Let's all spell paranoia together

My shrink told me I was paranoid .. but he's got it in for me!

 

[CRAZY FROG]

we could all push for Wild camping in coastal areas to be included in the Marine Bill.

 

[British Red]

You could - you have 2 days to do it though because the consultation on the Bill closes in two days time (it was published for consultation in April).

I have to say I think Robin made a point very well - the proposal as made was far too broad spectrum and hence was clearly unworkable - it covered farms and farm buildings, houses, gardens, railway embankments and goodness knows what else. . While I too would love to have access to some "wild" land there is almost no land in England that isn't farmed, coppiced, forested, grazed etc. This land isn't "wild" (as much as we might like it to be) in the way that parts of Scotland (and much more land in places like Canada and Scandinavia is). As such, sadly I am opposed to making "wild camping" a right. I'm all in favour though of talking to landowners who are generally quite a friendly bunch.


Red

 

[fishy1]

"Currently without the landowners concent it is illegal to wild camp on the moors, mountains, National Parks and MOD land. It is time to give people the same rights as those given North of the Border in Scotland to allow them to wild camp in these places without threat of legal action."

Do I understand the petition was asking for the right to wild camp in National Parks? and MOD land? What all of it, like my back garden? and the firing ranges? Kinder scout would be covered with campers and beer cans if this was allowed. Its' one thing in an inaccessible place with low density population and another when that place is within an hours drive of major population centers.

Why shouldn't people wild camp in national parks? Done responsibly, it causes no/very little damage.

And why not neccessarily MOD land? Their are firing ranges up here too, but cooperation between walkers and the MOD is generally very good, and no one will really walk onto a firing range in use anyways.

I think camping in someones direct garden is not allowed even in scotland, but when someone's "garden" gets into numbers of acres and is only cut grass or forest, I think camping should be allowed.

I'm totally against having to ask landowners permission to camp on thier land, and especially to whoever it was who suggested doing work for them for the right to camp. Some landowners, a fair few up here, are extremely anti walkers, but that doesn't stop me going thier. Indeed, if some landowner tries illegally to restrict access, it can even attract me to the area.

What I think should be done is have massive penalties for littering, and lots of enforcement.

 

[Wallenstein]

What I think should be done is have massive penalties for littering, and lots of enforcement.

Yes, 'cos the police etc have nothing better to do than traipse over remote moors and farmland checking on people leaving beer cans lying around...

 

[fishy1]

Yes, 'cos the police etc have nothing better to do than traipse over remote moors and farmland checking on people leaving beer cans lying around...

The majority of littering occurs at certain locations, normally accessible by car. And it doesn't have to be police, rangers could do it if given the power.

 

[weaver]

I'm totally against having to ask landowners permission to camp on thier land, and especially to whoever it was who suggested doing work for them for the right to camp. Some landowners, a fair few up here, are extremely anti walkers, but that doesn't stop me going thier. Indeed, if some landowner tries illegally to restrict access, it can even attract me to the area.

You fellows must have an entirely different concept of land ownership than we do over in the States. Here a man's land is his to use, control, refuse access and even defend with arms if deemed necessary.

Of course, that is as long as he pays his taxes to the Government. :yelrotflm

But, most owners will allow hunting and camping to responsible adults who ask permission and are known to be reliable and not a danger to the land, livestock or other people. Always the few who won't, but then that is why you ask. In some states the owner must post no trespassing signs to notify his wish to be left alone, in other states all land is "posted" and you must ask permission (sometimes in writing) to even walk on the land.

Just last week there was an incident near me where two teen boys camped out overnight and accidently started a 400 acre forest fire. They were trespassing and are being charged with arson.

I seriously doubt that landowner will allow any camping in the future, do you blame him?

 

[firecrest]

I think the problem in england is a little different - the country is small and vast swaiths of it were owned by the aristocracy. The right to roam was more a question of equality than anything else. perhaps a way around the dispute is to earn a license to bushcraft in certain areas? proving that you know fire saftey and are (hopefully) not going to leave beer cans and other mess everywhere.

 

[Wallenstein]

The majority of littering occurs at certain locations, normally accessible by car. And it doesn't have to be police, rangers could do it if given the power.

Yes, but that's partly because other locations are not reachable.

A blanket law would lead to abuse by a minority, which would make all the attention... I agree that the most sensible option is to approach landowners individually and request permisson.

As people have mentioned on these boards, there are many, many landowners happy for sensible people to use their woods etc... that surely a win-win situation?