Canoes - e-petition for access

[Jodie]

I'm not sure what BcUK's policy is on people posting links to these government
e-petitions and I've seen a few moved or closed, but watch how fearlessly I
proceed with this one nonetheless

Lots of people here seem to like canoes and I don't think I've seen this particular
petition before ('pologies if it's already here) so I thought I'd mention it - perhaps
it's on the 'song of the paddle' forum anyway.

"We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to pass legislation to give
canoeists and all other users of un-powered craft the free right to navigate all
rivers and canals in England and Wales (similar to the right already enjoyed by
cyclists to use bridleways, cycle tracks and roads)."
Submitted by Roger L. Revell
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Canoeists/

More details
Access to rivers in England and Wales for canoeists and other users of un-
powered craft is severely restricted, and is probably more limited than for any
other region in the World.

On only a very few rivers (e.g. parts of the Severn and Wye) is there a right of
free navigation for canoeists. River navigations are available to un-powered craft,
but only by the purchase of a licence.

The majority of rivers are either only available by making an advanced booking
and by paying a fee to use them during restricted periods in the Winter season
(e.g. the River Usk), or have no access permitted at all (e.g. the River Test).

Canoes are a form of sustainable transport, and can be used by almost all age
groups. They also provide a mechanism for exercise, sport, recreation, and the
study of wildlife. Access to waterways was specifically omitted from Countryside
and Rights of Way Act 2002. This omission now needs to be urgently addressed.

 

[loz.]

Well my ex-pat signature is added Jodie !!!

 

[C_Claycomb]

I know a bunch of canoeist who would be all for this.

I also know a bunch of fishermen who would be furious. As things stand, many fishing groups put in time and money to maintain waterways. I am not sure what similar work canoeist groups do. Certainly I can sympathise with an angling club, whose members pay what can sometimes be consierable sums to fish a stretch of river, being told that they now have to share with people who pay nothing to use the same resource.

While I love the idea of being able to paddle anywhere, just as I like the idea of being able to camp anywhere, or fish anywhere, I think that a lot of effort needs to be put in to make such a thing work without creating a lot of bad feeling.

 

[JonnyP]

Cheers Jodie.....I have signed it, but I do not think that canoe'ists, kayakers, should have access to all waterways in England, but they should certainly have lots more access. There was once a couple of people kayaking on my local nature reserve (a lake that is part of a river) during the time when all the water birds were sitting on nests. This is not right and should never be allowed, but I love canoeing and I do feel that most canoe'ists are responsible people, who just enjoy their no impact recreation, and should be able to enjoy paddling a lot easier than it is at the mo.... I hope this makes sence...I have had a few sherbets on an empty stomach and writing this is making me think too much, and I don't need that right now........

 

[Longstrider]

I've just signed the petition despite some reservations of the type that C. Claycomb has mentioned. I can see that the totally unrestricted use of certain waterways in the UK would lead to problems. There are certain "Beats" on trout and salmon streams and rivers that be VERY closely guarded by those who spend their lives maintaining without Govt assistance and on which their livelyhood depends.
I have signed the petition in the hope that by asking for "Everything" some concessions will be made, giving us "Some" or even "Most", and thereby allowing a far greater freedom to use the waterways than we now enjoy.

Edit to add: You're not doing too badly Jon. There are those of who struggle with the "Thinking Thing" before we start on the ale, let alone afterwards!

 

[nobby]

If we are talking about fisherman who pull largely unedible fish from the water just to put them back again I have no sympathy.
I'm with the canoeists, even though I'm making mine into a trimaran and have no great interest in small rivers.

 

[janiepopps]

Cheers for the heads up Jodie

j

 

[Doc]

I would only add that here in Scotland, like most civilised countries, paddlers have virtually unrestricted access to inland water, and it works well. Angling continues to thrive.

 

[Voivode]

I would only add that here in Scotland, like most civilised countries, paddlers have virtually unrestricted access to inland water, and it works well. Angling continues to thrive.

Ditto here. Anglers angle, paddlers paddle and I never hear of either group angry at the other. Often, they're overlapping sets of people; fishing from a boat is considered good fun on a calm lake!

 

[Marts]

Cheers for the heads up Jodie.

 

[Snufkin]

I would sign up but putting my name and address on anything connected to this government just isn't happening. But best of luck with the petition.

 

[British Red]

As I understand this, this is a petition for people who want rights (to canoe) without obligations (to maintain the waterways).

Sorry, but in my view, that's whats wrong. I see nothing in that petition about what "canoeists" are willing to give to the land - just what they want to take from the people who maintain it. I'll reconsider when I see the clauses "and in return, we the undersigned offer to give our time and effort in the following ways"

I think, in a small country, this has to be about give and take. "I want access" and "I do nothing in return" don't gel with me. Seriously, no offense meant, but I tire of people who want access to land, rivers, woods etc. but do not see any obligation in return.

Red

 

[Steve R]

As I understand this, this is a petition for people who want rights (to canoe) without obligations (to maintain the waterways).

Sorry, but in my view, that's whats wrong. I see nothing in that petition about what "canoeists" are willing to give to the land - just what they want to take from the people who maintain it. I'll reconsider when I see the clauses "and in return, we the undersigned offer to give our time and effort in the following ways"

I think, in a small country, this has to be about give and take. "I want access" and "I do nothing in return" don't gel with me. Seriously, no offense meant, but I tire of people who want access to land, rivers, woods etc. but do not see any obligation in return.

Red

Are you against cyclists too BR? After all, they pay nothing to be on the roads, unlike motorists do, and some (cycle clubs) practically close down the roads when they hold thier races and practices.

No contention, just asking.

 

[Marts]

I would sign up but putting my name and address on anything connected to this government just isn't happening. But best of luck with the petition.

Your address can be creative

 

[British Red]

Are you against cyclists too BR? After all, they pay nothing to be on the roads, unlike motorists do, and some (cycle clubs) practically close down the roads when they hold thier races and practices.

No contention, just asking.

Actually - Yes!

I have a real problem with cyclists that decide that road racing (where they ignore both the law, the highway code and common courtesy) is okay.

My belief, and I'm willing to be judged by it, is "Take what you want - and pay for it". If you want to camp in woodland and you exchange some copping, ditch digging, de-bitting and releasing game birds - whatever - to "pay for your keep" is fine. If you have the landowners permission - fine. But "give me without I am prepared to contribute" - not fine!

If cyclists want to race, its not about getting to work and not polluting, its a hobby. No problem with that - do it on a track, the same as car racers or motorcycle racers do!

Its about exercise? Yep so is gym membership etc. Pay your way!

I have a real problem with those that want others to pay for their enjoyment. Or those who think its their "right" to inconvenience others. Call me old fashioned, I believe that its fair to take your hobbies without inconveniencing others time or pocket. Happy to hear a counter argument along the lines of

"Other people should pay for my hobby or exercise because...."

Red

 

[Steve R]

I agree with you entirely BR, contibute, give something back, pay your way. Its the way to be IMO.

 

[C_Claycomb]

BR. You have very eloquently put what I was thinking.

Last year I was paddling with friends on the Thames and we came around a corner and found several fisherment with lines out. The wind was strong and we didn't give them as wide a berth as we might have done. Having believed we were passed them, I was deeply embarrassed to round a bush next to the bank and nearly run over a guy's line. The first lot of fishermen were visibly not pleased, and though the last guy didn't say anything it was clear he was Pi$$ed at me for making so much commotion.

While I love to paddle, and can't think of anything I like about drowning maggots (I used to spin and fly fish), I can't help but feel that the comment made by one of the canoeists I was with "...stuff them, we have as much right to be here as they do." was wrong. Maybe we did have the right on that river, but that didn't make things right.

I know that I read in Trout and Salmon magazine, some years back, that there was some fuss about this very issue and that the magazine was suggesting that fisherment needed to resist the move. So much for everyone getting on.

 

[British Red]

Wow,

I'm embarrassed here. I was all geared up for an argument

Please let me explain my position.

I am a keen rifleman, bushcrafter etc. Everywhere I shoot, camp, etc. I give back. Be it money, time, effort etc.

I think all those who think "I have the right to shoot, canoe, sail, fish, camp, paddle etc." without making any form of contribution to the assets that they wish to exploit are unbelievably selfish. Farmers are going out of business all over this country. They work stupid hours to break even - maintaining woods, waterways, paths etc. If you give nothing to this cause - you deserve nothing in return - you are just a selfish. If you want to put on the end of "access" petitions "and we, the undersigned, agree to a 1p in the pound rise in taxation to fund the maintenance of pathways, waterways and woodland" I'll sign. Until then, please don't believe all Bushcrafters, shooters, or outdoorsmen support such a proposition. We don't and are prepared to be vocally opposed to those who wish to take from the country without being willing to contribute to it in any way.

Red

 

[British Red]

Just had a thought,

If those who want access to waterways are willing to pay for a "river tax" (to maintain the waterways - the same as car drivers do to maintain the roads). I'll be happy to sign up. To avoid complications, why not peg it to the rate for the average 1.6L petrol car? That seems fair to me. I'd be delighted to see how many signatures sign up to this "amendment" ! Seriously - I'll be vocal for you then .. a great way for leisure users to contribute, and poor land owners to receive something in return. I may propose it myself in fact..anyone have a view (for or against)?

Red

 

[Steve R]

The way I see it is that people have the same rights, or should do, but they also have the same obligations.

Speaking generally of course, for example, the owner of some land has the right to be on it, others do not, that is a different thing entirely.

Didnt I read somewhere that all riverbeds are Crown property? (might be wrong on that).