Paramo - checked them out and can't decide if good or not.

[Paul_B]

I've got a more normal fit membrane jacket. No excess fabric but plenty of space for layers. Room to breathe? It has pockets with mesh inner pockets. They are very effective vents. These aren't actually pockets but put zips. The pockets are internal and access is through the vents or from inside if the main zip is open.

I've seen vents on more conventional designs including paramo. They do offer decent breathing room. A lot of excessive fabric isn't needed with good design. Imho it's a sign of lazy or poor design.

 

[Billy-o]

Got a Halcon jacket sent to me a few days ago. It's a 'where have you been all my life' kind of thing. I haven't ever been happier in the cold and pouring rain.

 

[SCOMAN]

I occasionally look them over and try them on, the fit is a bit weird. The one time I tried it in warm wet conditions I sweated like a squaddie in a spelling test. Goretex just seems to work better, for me anyway. I think they're a marmite type thing.

 

[lostplanet]

Paramo and the short answer for me is not robust enough and way to expensive for scrafting. Like you say dogwalking, walking and hiking etc they perform ok.
I sold the majority of my paramo gear as i couldnt justify the price versus possible damage and replacement. some of the zip design were painful to mess with.

I didnt find it particularly waterproof or breathable even after a reproof from the factory. I have the fuera jacket and taiga fleece combo which was ok but the fuera just osmosised and got soaked next to skin.
I have found the most waterproof trousers by Berghaus the "deluge" pant works for me. I might try the jacket if it pops up in a sale.

Top layer for me is a most VFM polycotton jacket/smock (easily replaced with identical as i like the continuity) with nikwax cotton proof and with goretex layer underneath when its buckets and light merino under that for warmth when static before shelter is sussed.

The newer issue PCS Dayglo crisp packet MVP is working ok but i would like to try a decent Event product.

The other thing is the Keela Munro that seems to get very good press but again a bit expensive should I end up in the brambles and thorns at night.
I will get one one day for a try out but sizing is very generous apparently.

 

[Tiley]

I have tried Paramo stuff and, while I want to like it and say it works, I'm not sure that I can. In use, I have found it hot and, because of that, just as sweaty and uncomfortable as any other 'hard shell' I've experienced. The outer fabric does appear flimsy but is easily reparable.

For fit, the jackets/smocks are quite good in terms of cut but seem to vary enormously from model to model; I would avoid their trousers like the plague and would always go for a Gore/Event/Neoshell option as they work fine for legs, are lighter in weight and are 'tailored' to accommodate movement much better than the Paramo equivalents.

I suppose the thing that I don't really like about the Paramo stuff is that, on a big day out or multi-day trip, you just end up feeling permanently clammy; that said, the same is true of just about every waterproof-but-breathable clothing set up when you're working hard! Therein lies the challenge for the manufacturers.

 

[Billy-o]

I think by now, after like 900 'what's the perfect jacket' threads on BCUK over fifteen years, we've cottoned to the fact that there isn't a perfect jacket. Rather, if you're expecting to be rolling around in the bracken ... heavy military cotton or gabardine works OK. For keeping comfy, keeping the wind off and being able to fend off the rain if it comes to it, Ventile might be an answer. I have about twenty GoreTex jackets deposited in different places, ranging from great big heavy things for keeping out tons of wet snow to super light things for running in. Paramo has a place in this firmament. The Halcon keeps you good when picking around and not trying to get somewhere specific in the quickest possible time. On a different hand some of their other jackets work well for cycling and running and, I have to say, having spent some time with it now, that Bentu fleece/windproof combo is a flipping coup.

Anyone got an Enduro? Trying to figure out its expense. My guess is, from experience, is that it is likely worth it, but for what exactly? Mind you it does cost a lot.

 

[C_Claycomb]

The Bentu would be closer to my perfect jacket that almost anything....and they made it in the Paramo cut that doesn't fit me properly.

 

[Tiley]

I, too, was excited about the Bentu fleece and windproof combo. I bought it as my 'weatherproof' when I did the Cape Wrath Trail, having been assured that it would keep out the wind, rain and any other nasties. The fleece was good - about the right weight, windproof(-ish) and faintly water resistant - despite the grippy sleeves; the windproof did not seem to add anything much to the weather repelling equation. Given that I experienced the best that the Highlands could throw at me in terms of weather and given the trust - and cash - I had invested in the efficiency of the fleece and windproof, I ended up feeling pretty let down. When it rained, I ended up drenched and often cold, too frequently for comfort. Thankfully, Paramo customer service is exemplary: I returned the fleece and windproof with my detailed observations about their performance - or lack of it - over the two weeks I was on the trail; Paramo listened and gave me a replacement top, whose name I can't remember, without a quibble. The replacement hangs as a sort of trophy in the cupboard, reminding me of my folly.

Despite all this, I know that, for some people, the Paramo system works brilliantly; sadly, I am not one of them. That combination of feeling clammy and the inconsistencies of the cut of their clothing means I am dubious of their efficacy. However, I still want them to work for me. Maybe I'll try out the replacement they gave me... Fourth time lucky? I hope so.

 

[Nativewood]

Don't know much about Paramo but given the construction of my Dad's jacket/coat, I'd rather have my Fortis anyday.

 

[lostplanet]

The other thing that is highly irritating wearing paramo, is the static. I really do hate static in clothing and thats one of the reasons I stopped using my taiga fleece.

Quality has dwindled obver the years as well but unfortunately the price has either stayed the same or increased.

 

[Billy-o]

I, too, was excited about the Bentu fleece and windproof combo. I bought it as my 'weatherproof' when I did the Cape Wrath Trail

Thanks. It is good to hear this, Tiley, and, of course, if they say it should stand up to the weather it should stand up to the weather. Though, if I am imagining the meteorology you encountered correctly, I think that, intuitively, I wouldn't have risked the Bentu combo. Just nervous, you understand. Though, that said, I have been snowshoeing in it in wettish kind of snow rain, medium weight, but persistent for a few hours ... not a hooley. However, that was uphill work and shoving out the calories. I was dry when I got back to the car.

Like Ventile, Paramo is very comfortable, beathable ... also, it is light and flexible. The point is to find the conditions when it works best so as you can enjoy those qualities, and when it is that you have to retreat to the 3-ply, pro-shell Gore-Tex fortresses.

 

[Paul_B]

Someone posted that the paramo was a perfect fit? Never thought I'd hear that. I guess you like excess material in your jacket. They are a very baggy jacket in most models. There are a few more normal shaped ones but they're not as good a design or they're the really expensive mountaineering version costing an eye watering amount.

By normal shaped I mean when you get the right length body and right length arms your jacket girth isn't too baggy even with the levels of insulation needed for arctic conditions underneath. They're baggy or short. Most hardshell waterproofs have a better fit, even the cheaper, longer length, dogwalker berghaus jackets favoured by older ramblers who no longer go into the mountains. Even those hardshells aren't paramo baggy.

Btw I once emailed paramo for fit advice. Response was an little bit telling. They practically admitted fit isn't right. Can't find the email now but I got the distinct impression that their own people giving technical sales advise didn't rate the fit.

 

[Billy-o]

Someone posted that the paramo was a perfect fit?

It could be better. But there is short round people, wide triangular people and seven foot tall, beanpole kinds of people, and every other variation. All mfrs have a body outline in mind, and produce their patterns accordingly. Someone is bound to fit Paramo I do like the roominess and ease of movement afforded by the Paramo cut, though. They have pockets for stuff too, which requires a bit of give. Rab, Norrona, Arcteryx even OR, sometimes it feels like a challenge just to find somewhere for your ski pass.

I tried on Enduro trousers, though. Long enough and fit at the waist but too narrow in the thigh. How you get that wrong, I don't know I don't think the trousers will work for resort skiing as you get a wet bum sometimes, depending on the weather. Also the lifts can be a bit rough and tumble, so maybe they aren't right for that environment. Backcountry/shoeing might be a different story

 

[Paul_B]

Yes, variety of sizes and shapes. Some brands have a certain fit but still cover a wider range of fits than paramo. For a brand with such a wide range of "waterproof" products there really should be something for everyone. I actually want to go back to paramo but can't due to fit options meaning the jacket options don't work for me.

 

[Paul_B]

I'm back to this again. About 18 months ago I bought a buffalo special 6 shirt. I wore it in heavy rain and got wet but mostly from it dripping down my neck. If I'd had a hood attached is have been mostly ok. That was an hour in torrential rain dog walking. It gave me a new respect for alternative thinking in outdoors clothing. This summer I've been wearing a Montane hooded windproof over a light base layer and I didn't feel cold or too wet in summer showers.

So a few months on from that, we've just had some horrendous rainy weather. Out came my goretex pro mountaineering jacket. Pit zips that don't let in water and articulation that stops it rising up if I lift my arms up. Bombproof and the full zip of a highly regarded Berghaus smock designed partly by Leo Holding for the Asgard climbing expedition to some cold climate mountain first climb trip? What a disappointment!! I realised I've only really worn it cycling to work in heavy rain not walking. It cost £260 8+ years ago. My endura cycling waterproof costing £70 worked better in heavy rain!! It feels like a wet bin bag minutes after going out into rain.

So now I'm looking at getting a new waterproof. Paramo springs to mind again. Have they learnt that there are different shaped people to the short, or fat"dog walkers?? My new love of pertex and pile or other inner layer means perhaps I should look at paramo again???

So what's new? Enduro, velez evolution, etc. Oh! There's a new paramo fit called athletic!! Plus they're using stretch fabric and zoned versions of their analogy fabric system.

I was supposed to be popping up to a paramo store within a store in Ambleside today but things didn't go to plan. So perhaps Saturday instead. Am I really thinking of shelling out £330 for be a waterproof??? If it fits yes!! I know my original version Alta dating from first half of the 90s lasted 15 years or more and would still be waterproof now if I knew where is put it. That design was pathetic!!! Back then they didn't like hook and loop cuff closures because "they stop working in the cold due to ice getting in them". Or some such bs! That meant the extra wide cuffs fell out and annoyed the hell out of me? It's what moved me to membrane and eVent.

Has anyone tried these new versions??

 

[Paul_B]

Having read the replies posted since I last looked at this thread I feel the need to make a few comments.

About 10+years ago I was doing a winter wild camp around great langdales with three friends. It was a very dank day walking through low cloud and deep snow in places. I wore a decent pair of Rab softshell trousers over long Johns and a good softshell jacket. I had decent winter waterproofs gloves on and trekking poles. We were walking across an between two hills when I fell through the snow and fell forward. I was thigh deep in a tarn with my arms in the water halfway too my elbows too. One mate helped to pull me out and we ducked behind a rock outcrop out of the wind.

That took 5 minutes and the result of that sort timescale was hands that I could barely move and wet legs that were numb with cold. I got my paramo trousers out and put them over the top of my wet softshell trousers and put my spare gloves on. Then set off again still very much cold and in a serious state. All the while with a winter wild camp load to carry. In ten minutes flat my legs felt dry and no longer cold. It took 2 hours for my hands to defrost though. We got to where we had planned to camp it was really only up the hill from our cars in case of needing to bug out. I decided to do that because of my dunking. I got to the pub and dropped in. 20 minutes later the rest of the party had joined me!!

My point being that no membrane trousers could have done that. It's like that guy who took a swim in a tarn wearing buffalo for a magazine advert IIRC. When you're truly at the extremes of being wet through and cold membrane waterproof layers do not deal with the situation but alternative systems can work. Having been a bit like the buffalo guy, wet through and getting seriously cold I am appreciative what these system clothings can do.

BTW winter conditions I think paramo has the potential to be perfect. They're a softshell waterproof if that makes sense. They just need to fit more shapes since they're really the only main brand to do these types of waterproofs. Membranes you can shop for the brand to fit not with analogy clothing. This means paramo needs to fit for more than two body shapes IMHO.

 

[EdS]

If it helps the Enduro jacket and trousers seems to be the best of both worlds as the fit is more slimline and well thoughtout. I agree that the fabrics aren’t truly waterproof but I find them generally more pleasant to wear and warmer in winter. Our ME MRT Kongur jackets and salopettes only last a couple of years before the Goretex lets in water, horses for courses I guess.

I find my MRT Kongur a bloody awful jacket, heavy badly fitting crisp packet - only wear it as its team issue.

Much rather my tatty old Montane thingy or my Paramo Valez hybrid

 

[Paul_B]

I'm thinking I want a waterproof softshell without a membrane. I don't like membrane these days they only get you wet from inside out in the end.

Afaik theres only paramo that counts as a waterproof softshell. Others make analogy clothing but paramo are best. The others I've seen don't look as good imho. It is this reason that it's a shame paramo don't do a few fits.

 

[Billy-o]

Dammit PaulB ... now I am back looking at the Paramo site.

 

[Tiley]

It goes back to the point made earlier: there is no ideal waterproof jacket or even system. When out and about in winter, I always stuff in my Buffalo belay jacket. It's great to keeping a bit of warmth when at a stop or, in extremis, dealing with the kind of inadvertent dunking described above. Yes, it takes up some space but it is a simple, brilliant piece of kit.