Old Ray Mears Series.

[ArkAngel]

As far as i am aware (and my boss used to work for SKY) if a programme is not available to buy and has finished it's first schedueled broadcast then it is available to the public domain.
As long as a copy is not made to broadcast and as long as no profit is made it is legal to do copies.



***EDIT***Sorry was writing this as you posted

 

[scanker]

jamie: I don't want to speak on Bob's behalf, but I read his post to mean the moderators on the INEBG forums might have said...

I might be wrong though.

I know one of the mods on INEBG so will see what she says.

 

[Bootstrap Bob]

Jamie/Loen-1
My apologies if that's how it came across.
I did actually mean the moderators on INEBG not Leon-1. I agree with him 100% which is why I was trying to find out any further information regarding the legallity of the situation.
I will not post any further replies unless I find something positive.

 

[leon-1]

A word of thanks Guys and Girls.

As you are aware it isn't easy to mod a forum with 4,000 members, we do try to keep on top of pretty much any issues, unfortunately the legal side of life is a total minefield so your efforts are very much appreciated. The input from this thread from ODG, ArkAngel, BootstrapBob and Scanker is very much appreciated. If you guys come up with the goods on this we will keep links to them for future reference.

Most of us are probably as interested in the outcome of this as you are, so once again, many thanks and keep up the stirling work,

Leon.

 

[ArkAngel]

After a bit more research and a few phone calls i understand the situations as this:

If you have recorded these series from TV, Cable or Satellite and at that time you had and can prove you had a valid TV license or satallite/cable subscription then you are allowed to keep these recordings indefinately.

If you have downloaded them from the internet then that would be classed as recieveing the data from a third party source and therefore it is illegal to do. This would be classed as distribution. If found in your possesion this would rebound on both you and the person/website you downloaded it from.

Again copying the data and distributing whether or not you make a profit from it or not is still classed as illegal (unfortunately)

The bottom line is - If you already have them recorded from the TV/satallite/cable, well done no problem but you can't copy them for anyone else .

Sorry for the u-turn on things there, but the person i was initially speaking to thought i was talking about the legallity of one person owning the programme, not about distribution to other parties.

 

[leon-1]

Thanks ArkAngel.

I agree it's very unfortunate, I was hoping that you guys may have turned up an obscure loophole, but had a nasty, sneaking suspicion that it would work something along those lines.

The thread will remain open, if it is not legal then we won't do it, but it may be worth people expressing an interest in early programmes in here.

If they keep record of enquiries then it may be worth drumming up the interest and pointing one of thier guys towards this thread, maybe then it will either get repeated or released as VHS or DVD if enough people show an interest.

 

[Big John]

If someone who is more learned on copyright law can provide a passage from a text concerning copyright that proves that this is legal then fine, but otherwise the thread will have to be locked.

What I am relying on is that one of you guys can find something that says this is OK to do in some form of legal text which is current. If you find it I'll leave the thread open, if not the thread will be closed.

Hi Leon, I'm fully aware of the responsibilites of the mods to keep it legal here, and quite right to, but this thread was originally about pertitioning the BBC to release the material and has digressed slightly since. I think the original intention is very valid (and obviously a lot of other people here do as well, including yourself IIRC) and it would be a shame to lock the thread because of the digression at the end.

Personally I've only just found the thread, even though it's been around for a while, and I'll be writing my letter in a short while, and I think it's only through a continued stream of letters that the BBC will take any action not a short flurry, therefore if we can keep this thread open and it keeps poping up as people write letters off now and then, we can keep it going.

If, as I suspect (having just spent 1/2 hour trawling the net for proof) no-one does come up with the evidance you're after, can you remove the posts in question and not close the whole thread please?

Wow, a lot of posting's happened whilst I've been off searching! I think my post is still relavent!

Edit: - Sorry, crossed posts there...

 

[ArkAngel]

I agree it's a definate pain.

As some of us have already sent letters to the beeb and recieved polite brush off's, perphaps it would be worthwhile opening a thread drumming up support for the release of these series. Just to put your name to it no more then 1 letter with all the attached names to as a show of support.
If we can get enough members on here to put their names to it (and i'm fairly certain we could get at least a couple of hundred) then that would be a large show of support for Mr Mears. It could then be pointed out to "auntie beeb" that we are but one small but organised section of Rays fanbase and if nothing else fiancially it would be worth them releasing the DVD's!?

Along with a steady flow of letters from single people we may wear them down with time!

 

[g4ghb]

Good plan! - i'm game to put my name on a 'good ol fashioned' petition.

I think it also can'y hurt to have a steady stream of personal letters too though!

I agree it's a definate pain.

As some of us have already sent letters to the beeb and recieved polite brush off's, perphaps it would be worthwhile opening a thread drumming up support for the release of these series. Just to put your name to it no more then 1 letter with all the attached names to as a show of support.
If we can get enough members on here to put their names to it (and i'm fairly certain we could get at least a couple of hundred) then that would be a large show of support for Mr Mears. It could then be pointed out to "auntie beeb" that we are but one small but organised section of Rays fanbase and if nothing else fiancially it would be worth them releasing the DVD's!?

Along with a steady flow of letters from single people we may wear them done with time!

 

[Bootstrap Bob]

Thanks for clearing that up ArkAngel.

No problem with removing posts from me if it's going to help the cause.
The alternative was just a suggestion, who's going to tell INEBG??

I have bought all the other RM DVDs so you can put me down for a petition

 

[ArkAngel]

It's a big problem with the legallity of "downloading" or "peer to peer" sofware that is available from the internet.
Most people will remember the fate of the original Napster, but there are still a number of these programmes/sites on the net <bittorrents,Limewire,Bearshare to name the few that i am aware of>

As far as i know its a question of where the servers for these systems are and the laws of the country where they are based. Technically yes it is illegal to download software, but you also have the train of thought that the internet is/was intended as a free resource with no limits or policeing and should remain so for all time. The good intentions of the creators of the internet was a global learning resource with limitless access to the worlds information. They could never see how technology would progress and the power and storage of the average home PC.

So it may be that although INEBG may be illegally offering software for download, it may only be illegal for us to download it. In the country where the server is based it may be legal to run.

As for "peer to peer" software that is the sharing of information between private users with permission and i have no idea about the legal side of that!!!!!

 

[leon-1]

As far as i know its a question of where the servers for these systems are and the laws of the country where they are based. Technically yes it is illegal to download software, but you also have the train of thought that the internet is/was intended as a free resource with no limits or policeing and should remain so for all time. The good intentions of the creators of the internet was a global learning resource with limitless access to the worlds information. They could never see how technology would progress and the power and storage of the average home PC.

So it may be that although INEBG may be illegally offering software for download, it may only be illegal for us to download it. In the country where the server is based it may be legal to run.

As for "peer to peer" software that is the sharing of information between private users with permission and i have no idea about the legal side of that!!!!!

That statement covers a big amount of it, but it also has to do with the content of the download, I for instance run various different types of Linux and the software is freely available on the net, it is also freeware and relies solely on the donations of its users and pretty much all of the software I use is like this.

It has a different type of license agreement, then for instance I could download Windows and a hookey key, and I am up and running, this however would be illegal due to the windows license agreement.

Pretty much the same thing applies to audio and visual presentations albums from you favourite artist (massive copyright laws), films and series (large laws again), something produced for viewing on the internet with effectively a GNU license could be freely distributed across the net on a massive scale and nobody could say any different, but it is all down to the license or copyright of that data being downloaded.

 

[Jamie]

thanks for all your help guys and gals....its a shame about the result but thats life.

great group effort in getting to the bottom of things

cheers

 

[clcuckow]

is it time for a very small. cataclysmic nuclear explosion of a white dwarf star them

 

[scanker]

I've had a reply from the person I know who moderates on It's Not Easy Being Green (INEBG) [For reference, we both mod on RiverCottage.net]:

Hi Neil,

Here's what's currently going on:

http://www.itsnoteasybeinggreen.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1383&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

Maybe the case here is slightly different in that Brigit [Mrs Strawbridge, main participant] is involved; however, the Strawbridges had to waive rights to DVDs etc as part of the deal, so it doesn't affect them directly re royalties, etc. As far as we see it at INEBG we are being open about it, the forum is there for all to see, and we are sharing the series for those who missed some of it. I think the same happened here [rivercottage.net] with COTWS or another video didn't it? I did it too with the Secret lIfe documentary that I was in. No problems encountered at all so far with any of them.

As far as I am concerned, it is sharing with others, and as long as no-one profits who shouldn't then it should be fine. I'm sure, though, that like here [rivercottage.net] , when the Official version is released most folks would buy it anyway either just to have the real thing in their collection, or for any extras it might have on it.

I would go for it, and argue the toss if it arises, if indeed it ever does. Does Mr Mears frequent the Forum at all?

[snip]

Disclaimer - this is off the top of my head, and I have no knowledge of the real legalities................needless to say.

So....that explains in more detail what's happening on INEBG but I don't think it helps BCUK towards condoning the sharing of early Ray Mears series on DVD. Unfortunately.

 

[leon-1]

Thanks Neil, yes it does explain a lot and you are right. Unfortunately from a legal perspective it still would not be legal and as such we couldn't condone it.

I think the main reason for this thread was to express ones interest in the series so that maybe if the correct amount was shown then whichever company would bring the series out on DVD, this is still going to be the way ahead as far as BCUK are concerned.

 

[scanker]

Fair enough. As my other post implies, there was a steady pressure from the River Cottage forums to bring out A Cook on the Wild Side on DVD. This has just been released, so it can work (eventually). Has anyone contacted RM to see if he can exert any influence?

 

[Big John]

Has anyone contacted RM to see if he can exert any influence?

I've copied him in on my letter, and suggested to the beeb that if they don't want the cost of producing a DVD that they hand the copyright to Mr Mears and let him do it - I'm assuming there that he'd want to, but I think it's a fair assumption!!

I also suggested that they could save production costs and make it available for download somewhere - after all we've all already paid for it in our licence fee!

 

[spamel]

Just found this that tells you when Ray is on!!

http://www.bleb.org/tv/search.html?q=Ray Mears

Seems he is getting plenty of air time!

 

[Tony]

So, have we got a definitive way of moving forward in trying to persuade the BBC to release them?