Oh, so annoying!!!

[RAPPLEBY2000]

AAAAAAAAGGGGHHH!

Very annoyed! I want to Name and Shame but the manager of the company in question has been really good to me for a good 10 years!
It's just the one TW*T assistant that spoils it! he's never been friendly or reccognised me!

I went to a Surplus store today to ask about an US Army ALICE sack,
all i want is the sack part and I knew they had a few spare ones, so i asked if i could have a "rummage" to find one.
The TW*T assistant that helped me said "yes, but i should put everything back, exactly where i found it" (which i did and always have done). I found an old worn one I like stuff to have a bit of history and it's usually cheaper

I took the sack part(without frame straps etc)down ready to possibly buy it.

I just had the fabric part (i bought 2 Medium sack parts for £10 each) so i'm thinking £10-£20 would be nice perhaps £40 tops (for what is essentially only half a bag (that cannot be used with out the frame)!

The TW*T said "that'll be £60"...(Which is the price of a new one with frame etc).
I pointed out it was just the sack part, not a new one either you could only just see the printed details
(he turned it over so he could see there was no frame), and said "he didn't know how much it was", he asked another assistant who also didn't know,
so TW*T said "they sell the whole bag for £60, if the boss can't sell them here he sells them on E-bay", but he could "sell the sack part to me for £60"...

I pointed out I'd recently bought 2 medium sized ones for £10 each.
He then try's to give me some spiel about them , "well they're collectable Vietnam kit" (it isn'tit's late cold war era) and they had at least 5 complete packs with frames I'd just looked through upstairs that have been there at least a year.

at which point i asked could he ask the manager(who was on holiday)

well he ummed and aared and said sorry i can only take £60....
that's £60 for a worn Large Alice sack(no frame or straps)
so i said "I'm not going to pay anywere near that much" and walked off.

so they've not heard of price tickets then....

I'll go back when the manager comes back I know he'll do me a decent deal, really annoying staff though!

 

[UKdave]

Yep,i know exactly how you feel.

My pet hate is shops order stuff in for you then try and charge you full price>

Conversation normaly goes something like this.
me-have you got such and such.
them-no but we can order it in.
me-ok what discount will you give me
them-none
me-but youve got to get it in specially,you make a free call i pay it arrives and the sale is done no stock holding no nothing.
them-we have overheads etc
me-you do,but if i dont get 10% you dont get a sale! and if i get more i will tell my friends and they will probably come along and buy one for that price so you sell in quantity and make double the profit because you sold alot more.

 

[Barney]

Are they any good the ALICE packs? I was checking one out today but it had a frame on 40 quid all in . Are they better without the frame?

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

Are they any good the ALICE packs? I was checking one out today but it had a frame on 40 quid all in

the rest of the packs were fine, but they were all Large packs and all £60 if TW*T is correct (which is questionable)
as for comfort, the general consensus seems to be 50/50, love/hate.
I like them as they allow a bit of fresh air round your back but the downside is the archaic padding. which looks like a brillo pad.

Are they better without the frame?

I already have a frame with straps! (plus a medium sack)

the large ones need a frame as there is nowhere to attach the shoulder straps.
(Medium size you can use without the frame)

It's something to do with the size and issue, basically they were issued for arctic and heavy loads(special forces etc),you wouldn't be able to carry that amount of kit without a frame.

 

[johnboy]

Are they any good the ALICE packs? I was checking one out today but it had a frame on 40 quid all in . Are they better without the frame?

Barney,

There are 2 ALICE packs Medium... Which doesnt really need the frame and Large which you can only use with the frame... Large is about 80-90 ltrs in capacity I suppose..

I used an Alice large pack for about 2 years here in NZ after my Berghaus Roc gave up the ghost after 15 years and a lot of abuse. It was Green and it was cheap which seemed like 2 good reasons to plump for one. The NZ Army has used them and moden versions of them for years. I'd say they make a passable rucksack one you've done a few mods.

1. Ditch all the metal clips on the outer pockets and replace with Fastex buckles.
2. Add some fastex buckles for the main lid straps
3. Invest in a decent Bergen liner as the pack is as water resistant as a paper bag.
4. Sort out a waist strap to stop it bouncing about on your lowerback and pummeling your kidneys
5. Bend the frame so it avoids you back when bending and twisting...

After 2 years I was totally ready to go back to a Berghaus Product.. A nice Vulcan...

As a method of carrying a average load over a reasonable distance they leave a lot to be desired.. However they are as tough as old boots. Unless you have to use one I'd say most reasonable civilian packs are better in most respects.

I got mine for 20 NZD or less than 10 GBP 40 quid seems to be massively excessive...

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

I got mine for 20 NZD or less than 10 GBP 40 quid seems to be massively excessive...

W...w..what?:yikes: less than a tenner? That's annoying!

 

[johnboy]

W...w..what?:yikes: less than a tenner? That's annoying!

Take a look here....

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Antiques-collectables/Militaria/Other/auction-219417141.htm

Significantly less than 60GBP.... But equally uncomfortable to carry...

 

[johnboy]

as for comfort, the general consensus seems to be 50/50, love/hate.

Yes Those that have used them hate em those that haven't don't

 

[Barney]

Barney,

There are 2 ALICE packs Medium... Which doesnt really need the frame and Large which you can only use with the frame... Large is about 80-90 ltrs in capacity I suppose..

I used an Alice large pack for about 2 years here in NZ after my Berghaus Roc gave up the ghost after 15 years and a lot of abuse. It was Green and it was cheap which seemed like 2 good reasons to plump for one. The NZ Army has used them and moden versions of them for years. I'd say they make a passable rucksack one you've done a few mods.

1. Ditch all the metal clips on the outer pockets and replace with Fastex buckles.
2. Add some fastex buckles for the main lid straps
3. Invest in a decent Bergen liner as the pack is as water resistant as a paper bag.
4. Sort out a waist strap to stop it bouncing about on your lowerback and pummeling your kidneys
5. Bend the frame so it avoids you back when bending and twisting...

After 2 years I was totally ready to go back to a Berghaus Product.. A nice Vulcan...

As a method of carrying a average load over a reasonable distance they leave a lot to be desired.. However they are as tough as old boots. Unless you have to use one I'd say most reasonable civilian packs are better in most respects.

I got mine for 20 NZD or less than 10 GBP 40 quid seems to be massively excessive...

That appears an experienced and honest review Johnboy, Thanks

 

[johnboy]

That appears an experienced and honest review Johnboy, Thanks

No problem.. I don't mean to come across as totally negative. A couple of things thing I did like about it were.

1. Having the three large pockets on the outside was really handy. You do not have to delve into the Bergen for stuff. I used to keep my basha / Tarp in the middle pocket so I could get to it and get it up to keep off the rain while setting up camp. The two side pockets are tunnels so you could stuff an ice axe / snow shovel behind them with no problems.
2. Inside the main bergen there is a large pocket ( which benifits from a fastex clip) which was handy for small items and snacks etc I quite liked that.

It's actually a pretty roomy bergen and sucked up my Buffalo 4S outer and other assorted kit with no problems. It actually reminded me a lot of the old SAS/Para Bergen.

Cheers

John

 

[Goatboy]

OK as a retailer I'll play Devils eggy dutch drink here....
Suppliers Do put surcharges on individual buys we make... otherwise we are the public ( look at the GROUP buys) on the forums!!!
They do charge us postage and handling charges onto single items. For years we "absorbed" these charges to help out good customers, but unfortunately in these hard times even with slightly larger spending power we've got to pass this on as so many are using our knowledge and skill to suss out a good but them buying in the Internet. I personally don't mind this as I find 70% of customers will buy from me due to the knowledge, skill and training I put into staff. But these things do cost, that convenient store on the high street has rent and rates to pay as well as those highly paid staff ( though I fear where you went those staff weren't empowered / trained to make a call.)
Also about of 90% of suppliers WONT deal with you direct... So if it goes "tits up" you try to deal with your cheap discount Internet warehouse!!! There are exceptions... thats what makes a rule a rule. But think, you are in a very small clique on here in the fact that folks like Lurch and myself ( he may not agree with what I'm saying by the way ) are happy to give free advice to you all because we care. Skill costs in industry.. as does the freedom to get you kit when you want it, yesterday as you're not that together on the organizing front.. So OK you had a bad experience, chat to the owner and see what happens, but don't think that if a guy has wages to pay that they're gonna give it away.
Please feel free to have a rant at me, I'm just telling you how it is for the retail folk at the moment. The guy who started our company had a thing that we gave discounts very selectively, folk used to come in and say " ... but I belong to such and such...." his credo was that well, " you may belong but I've never seen you before, why should you get a discount over that man who comes in every week and buys a wee thing" not really fair is it?
Please excuse the but sometimes these things need to be pointed out, and to the moderators I'll happily remove this if it's deemed offensive... It's not meant that way.
Goatboy.

 

[Barney]

Please excuse the but sometimes these things need to be pointed out, and to the moderators I'll happily remove this if it's deemed offensive... It's not meant that way.
Goatboy.

An alternative perspective and different viewpoint can hardly be deemed offensive Goatboy, Makes you think just that little bit more.

 

[Goatboy]

Thanks Barney,
Thought I was up for a ban there...lol
Goatboy.

 

[johnboy]

Here you go I found an image of it after I'd modified it a bit with fastex buckles.

I think that 60 GBP is a LOT of cash to spend on an ALICE Large Pack.

However I suppose the retailer has the right to set the pricing he sees fit to a degree ( I don't think the pricing of army surplus is regulated in any way). As a consumer you can decide to pay the price or not.

What is the going rate for a ALICE Large Pack in the UK??

 

[Templar]

Aaahh yes... the large ALICE, my home away from home for many years, I had one in the Army and used it for every trip I ever did, still do actually, I love it but only after a few mods:

1- after market shoulder straps (wider & thicker)
2- replace all buckles with fastex
3- add "claymore" pouch to the lid
4- add a large pocket to each side the length of the sack
5- cut 2 inches off the bottom of the frame so it sits right on my back (above webbing) (& yes I'm vertically challenged)
6- replace all rivets with High Tensile bolts (stops it popping when dropped and squeeking)
7- add 2 para flare pockets to the lid also (not needed now lol)
8- have whole sack double stitched...

and thats it... one Recon Grade home away from home...

As for 60 pounds for just a sack... hell no...

 

[Lurch]

Lurch and myself ( he may not agree with what I'm saying by the way )

Aye, I was just going to mention that we get charged small order fees, carriage etc on most orders under £250 (depending on supplier obviously). So that non-stock item will cost us more than something which sits on the shelf and in fact means that we probably lose money on the deal just to keep a regular client happy.

 

[Toddy]

Thanks Barney,
Thought I was up for a ban there...lol
Goatboy.

No reason why, might ask you to remember family site with the occasional wording, but otherwise your opinion is perfectly valid and informative.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

Originally Posted by Goatboy View Post
Thanks Barney,
Thought I was up for a ban there...lol
Goatboy.

I worked in 2 camping shops, and the ethos was always, help the customer as much as you can. people liked me I always had a chat and i always gave a 10% discount if they asked for one(we'd get more sales thus more profit).
we used to sell own brand 60l rucksacks, for £60, in the sales some went down to £15 and we were still making a profit!

Often if we didn't sell what they were after we'd send them to the said surplus shop and they'd send customers to us, I genuinely have a good relationship with said surplus shop, Never liked TW*T though.

annoying thing is the TW*T couldn't even offer a sensible guess (he must have working there 5 years).
I know that they sell stuff for way more than they bought it for.

 

[Goatboy]

No reason why, might ask you to remember family site with the occasional wording, but otherwise your opinion is perfectly valid and informative.

cheers,
Toddy

Sorry Toddy,
I appologise for my language on reflection it was rather florid. Sorry.
Thanks for the responses, I was worried that I'd be seen as an evil retailer. I do try my best to help the customer out, and will gladly give unbiased advice to anyone here or in the shop who asks. I often give discounts though some folk to try to extract the ##### when it comes to discounts... try it in your local Tesco and see what happens. Similarly with repairs, I'm pretty handy fixing things and always offer the option of me fixing an item over sending it to the "proffesionals". All I ask is that if the materials cost a lot that they cover said materials and more often than not, not even that. Though if they'd like to pop a couple of quid into the local mountain rescue teams tin I'd be really made up.
Lurch, sorry if I dragged you into this, but you came to mind as a fair chap from what I've read about you on here.
Will watch my Ps and Qs next time.
Goatboy.

 

[Minotaur]

The thing that drives me nuts is when they try to push specials on people.

I make no bones about the fact I like to make sure I get every last penny's worth of value out of any deal, I am the shop assistant's nightmare.

I actually complained once in a branch of Millets(I think), because they were trying to palm off the current special offer cooker to someone. I asked what size tent they had, and then pointed out that the dual burner/gas bottle stove might be a bit dangerous.