Nomadic vegetarian?

[Tengu]

So you are right, but is their health sustainable in the long term?

atheletes have very short working lives.

and not all primitive women gathered, some hunted too. (Saami for example)

 

[Mikey P]

While chatting with some friends a few days back we came upon the subject of food and bushcraft. Normaly its hunter/gathering techniques all the way in survival/bushcraft.

Would it be possible to sustain a vegetarian lifestyle year-round asuming you dont farm part of your food?

Well...as a practicing vegetarian, I am still pragmatic enough to agree that it would not be impossible but I think it would seriously reduce your possibility of survival.

In a situation where I had no 'commercial' sources of food, I would eat meat/fish in order to increase my chance of living. I reckon that a vegetarian only diet would be lacking in certain vitamins/minerals/food groups and the amount of effort required to subsist on a vege-only diet would be better used in trapping/hunting/gathering to supplement vegetable matter. Remember, probably no milk, butter or cheese for a hunter gatherer, so very little protein!

However, as I live in Western society with no shortage of a variety of foodstuffs, I choose not to eat meat.

 

[fredcraft]

A questions comes to my mind, pehaps a little off-topic, but still I'll ask, are insects considered as animals / meat to vegetarians ?

Thanks for the info,

 

[Toddy]

Yes, insects are considered 'meat', as are fish.
Vegans won't eat honey let alone dairy products.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[fredcraft]

Yes, insects are considered 'meat', as are fish.
Vegans won't eat honey let alone dairy products.

cheers,
Toddy

Tought so, thanks for the clarification Toddy and excuse my ignorance !

 

[lofthouse31]

ive been looking into the idea this thread is based upon, ive got loads of work to do yet but im starting to get the impression that a modern day nomadic vegan were he or she allowed to pick the available wild resources ie given free hand would have a much better chance of surthrival than our stone age hunter gatherer ancestors.
this based on the number of plants of high food value (the walnut is a good example) that didnt exist in britain back then.
the romans bought lots of plants that have since become food for the forager.
as to whether a modern day nomadic vegan would survive im yet unable to provide a conclusive answer.
what would be essential is that the nomad followed a specific range of movements each year to make the most of the knowledge of plant locations fromthe year before and also to make use of the different land types.
im starting my planning of my cycle of movement from my home town in wiltshire.
this is going to take a while but i will post the results.
though knowing my luck when the results come through the thread will be long forgotten but still if it satisfys my curiosity.
also if it turns out a nomadic vegan can survive an unashamed corpse cruncher like me should have no probs

 

[madrussian]

I think it all depends on location. An area rich in plants with temperate climate could possibly support a purely vegetarian diet. Otherwise you would have to gather and store large amounts of food to ride out the winter. Just look at nature. What do squirels and ants do all summer and fall. Gather and store for the winter. In areas where winters are very mild, you would not necessarily have to do that but you would have to keep moving in search of food. My humble opinion.

 

[Tengu]

Yes, you would have to store a lot, and that would reduce your movements

 

[Yorkshire Boy]

I think it all depends on location. An area rich in plants with temperate climate could possibly support a purely vegetarian diet. Otherwise you would have to gather and store large amounts of food to ride out the winter. Just look at nature. What do squirels and ants do all summer and fall. Gather and store for the winter. In areas where winters are very mild, you would not necessarily have to do that but you would have to keep moving in search of food. My humble opinion.

Ants swarm over live stuff and kill it.

Squirrels eat birds eggs and chicks.
The same teeth that are good for breaking nuts are excellent at crushing through skulls.
Areas that have high grey squirel populations, have fewer song birds.

As regarding the veggie athlete/bodybuilder debate.
They take supplements, and lots of them.
The athletes of 50yrs ago ate a huge amount.
But then the surface area that they ran on wasn't the same, nor was their footwear.
Take that in to account and they would be just as good.

To build muscle takes at least 120grms of protein
Try getting that from spinach.
.
Also someone who eats fish, is he a veggie?
No, it's just someone who doesn't eat mammals.

The strongest men in the world aren't veggies.
Sorry but true.
They eat 5000/7000 calories a day.
Animal protein plays a bid part.

Tried and tested through out human history.
If you value the life of a fish, chicken, dog or dead human body, chances are you wouldn't survive that extreme situation.

 

[lofthouse31]

i think that you would struggle to hunt and gather 7000 calories a day every day be it meat or veg or anything.
much less prep it cook it etc.
a survival situation would require least effort for greatest return which for me is foraging for plants, id lay traps obviously but that would be no certainty of success.
obviously the best rule in a pinch is that if its edible eat it.
for me the idea behind this thread is an interesting one to persue purely because i dont know enough about edible wild plant life yet.
anyway im sure we can all get by quite easily on much less calories than we usually consume.

 

[Tengu]

Not if you were very active.

How about to do as our remote ancestors did and become a scavenger?

 

[Toddy]

i think that you would struggle to hunt and gather 7000 calories a day every day be it meat or veg or anything.
much less prep it cook it etc.QUOTE]

2,500 is considered a very good sufficiency for a healthy adult male. A rough guide is to multiply the body weight in pounds by 18 for really heavy exercise to give a calories needed figure. If not very active then multiply by 14.

i.e. a 12 stone man (168lbs or 76kgs) would need about 2,350 or just over 3,000 calories to maintain bodyweight, depending on his level of exercise.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[spamel]

It might be just me, but whenever I open up a beech mast, there doesn't seem to be anything remotely nut like inside! It seems to be a three sided sliver of wood, probably not good eating, I've opened that and there were some fibres inside and that was it. Where's the nut?!!

 

[Galemys]

Where's the nut?!!

It's the same with me!
They produce very much in so called mast years but in between it looks like they are producing blanks. Off course when there is a mast year I walk in all kinds of woods but beech woods...

Tom

 

[lofthouse31]

multiply my weight, my calculator doesnt stretch that far lol,
i didnt know that good info mate

 

[Toddy]

Now if I could just stick to the calorie limit..........

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Yorkshire Boy]

i think that you would struggle to hunt and gather 7000 calories a day every day be it meat or veg or anything.
much less prep it cook it etc.QUOTE]

2,500 is considered a very good sufficiency for a healthy adult male. A rough guide is to multiply the body weight in pounds by 18 for really heavy exercise to give a calories needed figure. If not very active then multiply by 14.

i.e. a 12 stone man (168lbs or 76kgs) would need about 2,350 or just over 3,000 calories to maintain bodyweight, depending on his level of exercise.

cheers,
Toddy

Toddy, I have no problems with you been a veggie.
I hope you understand that.

When Ranulf Fiendes (spelling?)
Crossed Antarctica he and his team mate were eating 7000 calories a day.
They both lost a lot of weight!!!!

Body builders and athletes take supplments which are hardly natural, are they?

The best form of energy is carbs.

But you do need protein to repair your body.

The strongest men in the world do eat a chicken for lunch!

But then they do weigh 20-30 stone!

20 stone is considered a light man!

It's easy for me to sit here, with a cig and a beer and say I would eat this and that if I was in a survival situation.

I think you would fair better than me, maybe because you could exploit the veg side better.

I do hope that if it came to preserving your life, that you could force yourself to eat an animal.

If I was with you I would be come highly distressed if you didn't.

Much love,
JC.

 

[Carcajou Garou]

In any situation but especialy a survival situation vegetarians should not eat meats, I don't think that they have the ability to process, digest, absorb meats as a whole without added supplyments (enzymes and such) and it could cause them much stress that they should not have to add to the already stressfull situation. Don't want to make a situation worse.
I could be wrong? Like being lactose intolerant lost the needed enzymes to properly digest milk or an ingredient in milk.

 

[Toddy]

I've heard this before about vegetarians not being able to digest meat. The only two I know off who ate meat, after many years of not eating any, were incredibly uncomfortable afterwards. Bloated, constipated, loose and cramps they said. Somehow it seemed a bit severe afterall our guts ought surely to cope with most things we feed them. I don't fancy trying the experiment myself.

I do know that after a dose of antibiotics I need to eat a lot of wild food to settle my stomach again 'cos otherwise it's me who is bloated, etc., etc.. I think it's the gut bacteria that needs re-charged.

Lactose intolerance is an odd thing in our country, but it's surprising the number or older folks who find they're struggling to cope with milk and cheese.
I think it'd be a nightmare being veggie and allergic to nuts though; that'd be hard, it'd really restrict the protein base for me.

cheers,
Toddy...who has been munching FatHen today, and it was lovely

 

[xylaria]

cheers,
Toddy...who has been munching FatHen today, and it was lovely

the seeds of fat hen are 16% protien and 49% carb