No condensation trails!

[Adze]

I know Adam, we're just comparing bad with bad.

It's a pity that Walker Wind Sails went belly up; that's the sort of thinking we could do with now.

Was Walker the fella who had a wind turbine powering a conventional shaft and screw type propeller by direct drive? Definitely a pity if that idea is toast, the models I saw were absolute genius and, as proof of concept, incontrovertible. Still reliant on the wind it's true, but it was good enough for Columbus.

 

[hertsboy]

If you guys had a wife stuck in Copehagen, running out of medication and jobsworth bloody doctors saying they can't help her because she ain't got her EU medical card with her (and she's a Danish Citizen with a Danish passport but resident in the UK for 25 years!) you might think differently.

Can't go the British Embassy for help as shes not British. I should have insisted she took British nationality but she's proud to be a Dane.

Can't vote in this country and can't get medical help in her own!

What a mad world!

Frankly, I'm lonely and sh**ting myself about it all!

I'm longing to see vapour trails in the sky!

 

[harryhaller]

What;s the problem? Boat from Harwich to Germany and then train. Easy peasy.

Copenhagen is only just across the North Sea - not the other side of the world.

 

[phill_ue]

I'm just annoyed that my package won't be arriving anytime soon! Ah well, I have other toys!

 

[malente]

If you guys had a wife stuck in Copehagen, running out of medication and jobsworth bloody doctors saying they can't help her because she ain't got her EU medical card with her (and she's a Danish Citizen with a Danish passport but resident in the UK for 25 years!) you might think differently.

Can't go the British Embassy for help as shes not British. I should have insisted she took British nationality but she's proud to be a Dane.

Can't vote in this country and can't get medical help in her own!

What a mad world!

Frankly, I'm lonely and sh**ting myself about it all!

I'm longing to see vapour trails in the sky!

Damn that's horrible! Sending over some good vibes and good luck to your wife! Can you fax or scan her card and email it? Then she can printit off...?

 

[harryhaller]

I imagine that the thousands of people who live near airports around Europe are very happy indeed - temporarily, of course.


Wouldn't it be nice if all our airports were turned into natural forests? Heathrow is huge...

Without airplanes, we could all then enjoy the pleasure of REAL travel, i.e. seeing the bits in between the places of departure and arrival. Leisurely (as holidays are supposed to be), no hassle, no departure lounges, body checks....

 

[BorderReiver]

Was Walker the fella who had a wind turbine powering a conventional shaft and screw type propeller by direct drive? Definitely a pity if that idea is toast, the models I saw were absolute genius and, as proof of concept, incontrovertible. Still reliant on the wind it's true, but it was good enough for Columbus.

No, these were compter controlled, vertical airfoil section wings.
Along these lines

They could have been scaled up and at least assisted propulsion on bigger vessels.

 

[TeeDee]

Really Interesting thread.

I work in Aviation , that does'nt mean that I'm in love with it , I just work with it. Its there after all from and for consumer demand.
I can happily see both sides of this thread but if i'm being honest i think there < could > be some hypocrisy here.
But I'm happy to be proven wrong.


So out of interest could you ALL happily give up Air travel for yourself ie hols , expeditions, business meetings and for products and materials with time critical deadlines.?

Would you all happily go back to Land and Sea transport?


Good thread.

I imagine that the thousands of people who live near airports around Europe are very happy indeed - temporarily, of course.


Wouldn't it be nice if all our airports were turned into natural forests? Heathrow is huge...

Without airplanes, we could all then enjoy the pleasure of REAL travel, i.e. seeing the bits in between the places of departure and arrival. Leisurely (as holidays are supposed to be), no hassle, no departure lounges, body checks....

 

[jonajuna]

Is it panto season yet? Never mind...

"Oh no it doesn't"

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/03/shipping_vs_air.php



Using very very simple maths that makes air transport 108 times more polluting per ton carried than shipping. Nice try though

i said pollution not just CO2

do you know what comes out of burning heavy bunker oil compared to highly refined avgas?

read for yourself from an article that is 2 years more contemporary


nice try?

 

[wingstoo]

So out of interest could you ALL happily give up Air travel for yourself ie hols , expeditions, business meetings and for products and materials with time critical deadlines.?

Would you all happily go back to Land and Sea transport?


Good thread.

I would now, having come back from NZ in February I have no need or want to use Air travel again.

So land and sea, I would be happy with just land to be honest

Wings

 

[British Red]

Really Interesting thread.

I work in Aviation , that does'nt mean that I'm in love with it , I just work with it. Its there after all from and for consumer demand.
I can happily see both sides of this thread but if i'm being honest i think there < could > be some hypocrisy here.
But I'm happy to be proven wrong.


So out of interest could you ALL happily give up Air travel for yourself ie hols , expeditions, business meetings and for products and materials with time critical deadlines.?

Would you all happily go back to Land and Sea transport?


Good thread.

Yep

Don't fly for holidays - there are too many stunning places in the UK

I believe that most business meetings are actually just a "jolly" these days. There is very little that cannot be achieved with Video conference, teleconference, e-mail, on-line collaboration etc. I have managed to restructure 10 days a month of international travel to not renewing my passport in the last two years.

As for these parts on "time critical deadlines" - order them earlier. Unless these things are soft fruit, why would they go off? Poor planning and management is no need to increase shipping costs.

So, yep I see no reason to fly. I run international and multi continent programmes of work. We buy equipment worldwide. I don't need to fly. I'm delighted to say, yes, I'm very happy to manage by land and sea. Other can as well. Whether they choose to is a different issue, the reality is, its perfectly possible

Red

 

[jackcbr]

Well I live very close to Gatwick (very, very close). And I've got to say it is nice to be able to be woken up by birdsong for a change and can breathe a little easier, even though I'm asthmatic. That said, I work for an airline and things are looking a little tense at the moment. I'm torn between the peace and quiet and the need for flight travel. Maybe now we can see that a balance needs to be drawn, less empty flights and a better way of life for us all. Thank goodness it's not freezing weather still, or the trains would have stopped working too.

Still I guess the quiet can't last forever and I do choose to live where I live, so shouldn't complain. Maybe one day I'll find that little plot far from the madding crowd, but until then, I'll keep taking my flights to new world experiences and camping out on the flightpath.

 

[wingstoo]

From Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas

Avgas is a high-octane aviation fuel used to power many aircraft and racing cars. Avgas is a portmanteau for aviation gasoline, as distinguished from mogas (motor gasoline), which is the everyday gasoline used in cars. Some light aircraft also use automobile fuel instead of avgas.
Avgas is used in aircraft that have piston or Wankel engines. Gas turbines can operate on avgas, but typically do not. Turbine and diesel engines are designed to use kerosene-based jet fuel.

Splitting hairs doesn't necessarily win arguments, Aviation fuel is more refined than the fuel used in large shipping vessels.

Wings

 

[hertsboy]

Please dont be so patronising!

You try it!

The boat from Esbjerg to Harwich has a 10 day watiing list and the price has doubled to £500 one way for a foot passenger.

There are trains Belgium but it is impossible to book online on Eurostar........ and that's the only way you can book

Edit:

OK, I know you didn't mean it that way -- just letting off my frustration at you. Sorry.

What;s the problem? Boat from Harwich to Germany and then train. Easy peasy.

Copenhagen is only just across the North Sea - not the other side of the world.

 

[hertsboy]

Thanks Malente - you at least have a heart, not like some others here.

Damn that's horrible! Sending over some good vibes and good luck to your wife! Can you fax or scan her card and email it? Then she can printit off...?

 

[hertsboy]

Fair comment, Red. And I personally hate going abroad when we have so much here!

But this trip was to see her seriously ill mother - probably the last time she will see her, in this world at least!

Still, look on the bright side, at least she'll have a bit more time with her mum while she can

Yep

Don't fly for holidays - there are too many stunning places in the UK

I believe that most business meetings are actually just a "jolly" these days. There is very little that cannot be achieved with Video conference, teleconference, e-mail, on-line collaboration etc. I have managed to restructure 10 days a month of international travel to not renewing my passport in the last two years.

As for these parts on "time critical deadlines" - order them earlier. Unless these things are soft fruit, why would they go off? Poor planning and management is no need to increase shipping costs.

So, yep I see no reason to fly. I run international and multi continent programmes of work. We buy equipment worldwide. I don't need to fly. I'm delighted to say, yes, I'm very happy to manage by land and sea. Other can as well. Whether they choose to is a different issue, the reality is, its perfectly possible

Red

 

[harryhaller]

Jet fuel
Main article: Jet fuel

Jet fuel is a clear to straw colored fuel, based on either an unleaded paraffin oil (Jet A-1), or a naphtha-kerosene blend (Jet B). It is similar to diesel fuel, and can be used in either compression ignition engines or turbine engines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_fuel

Most airlines use jets, so they wouldn't be using avgas which is for propeller planes.

 

[hertsboy]

Not that is what I call a nice balanced and sensible post.

Given the choice, I would love to see air traffic volume scaled down as far as is practically possible.

I'd also like to see motor vehicle traffic reduced too... it seems crazy that our roads are absolutely chock a bloc with killing machines (i.e. vehicles) producing poisonous gases and wasting out energy supplies. When you think that most trips are less than 2 miles, the mind boggles at the madness of the human race!

I try to do my bit by walking, cycling and taking public transport. But not everyone has the time to do this.

But if these things are to happen they must happen gradually.

Well I live very close to Gatwick (very, very close). And I've got to say it is nice to be able to be woken up by birdsong for a change and can breathe a little easier, even though I'm asthmatic. That said, I work for an airline and things are looking a little tense at the moment. I'm torn between the peace and quiet and the need for flight travel. Maybe now we can see that a balance needs to be drawn, less empty flights and a better way of life for us all. Thank goodness it's not freezing weather still, or the trains would have stopped working too.

Still I guess the quiet can't last forever and I do choose to live where I live, so shouldn't complain. Maybe one day I'll find that little plot far from the madding crowd, but until then, I'll keep taking my flights to new world experiences and camping out on the flightpath.

 

[harryhaller]

Please dont be so patronising!

I wasn't. I was giving you some straight advice, based on what you had said.

Thanks Malente - you at least have a heart, not like some others here.

You are misjudging "others".

The boat from Esbjerg to Harwich has a 10 day watiing list and the price has doubled to £500 one way for a foot passenger.

There are trains Belgium but it is impossible to book online on Eurostar........ and that's the only way you can book

Yes, Eurostar seems to be fully booked, but you can get a booking. There's a ticket for £97.50 tomorrow if you wish.
http://tinyurl.com/y4tx6tq

£500 sounds ridiculous. But I suggested the boat to Germany and then train - have you checked that out? Also, you can take the ferry across the channel - you don't have to rely on Eurostar. There are also boats to Holland.

You can also check out various websites for people who are travelling and want to split costs etc.
http://www.gumtree.com/community/rideshare/

There is also Eurolines for travelling by coach..
http://www.eurolines.com/

Please understand me, hertsboy. I have travelled around Europe most of my working life and I don't travel by plane. You sounded like you have an emergency because you can't fly, but from my point of view that's absurd, if you are travelling in Europe, especially to a neighbouring country.

If you want me to check out the ferry bookings, I will. But there are seats on Eurostar - go for it!

 

[poddle]

Why is everyone worried about C02?

Its great stuff, ask any plant or tree.
Now that the Global Warming Scam has been outed, many of us believe that it is in fact a coolant, quite the reverse of what they are trying to get us to believe. A bit like the Ice age we were supposed to be experiencing now, another fallacy that started off in the 1970's just like this Global Warming one.

FACT, temperatures have cooled in the last ten years


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