Klenchblaize said:
I'm with Klenchblaize on this - we have seen it all before - im pretty sure even the same tribe in the Extreme Survival series - Arnhemland episode.
I also was looking forward to a forage around Britain.
L
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I'm with Klenchblaize on this - we have seen it all before - im pretty sure even the same tribe in the Extreme Survival series - Arnhemland episode.
I also was looking forward to a forage around Britain.
L
I'm ashamed to say I fell asleep half way through 
. What I did see was very interesting. I'll have to catch up with it on Sunday.
. What I did see was very interesting. I'll have to catch up with it on Sunday.Klenchblaize said:
No stoning needed, these are perfectly valid points.
I think the topic for this first show good, but I think some people (IMHO) have not totally missed the point, but mis-understood it. They stated there is nearly no knowledge of UK aboriginal bushcraft that remains intact - the only idea (however remote) that they would get of how these people lived would be to look at how some of the last hunter-gather people still survive. I'm not saying that out ancestor's did anything similar to what you saw in the programme last night, but at least it gives us some kind of an insight as to what it may have been like.
The point about fire I thought was really good - that everywhere the people go in the outback the first thing they want to do is to have a fire.. I do believe that our aboriginal relatives would have thought like this as well.
Yeah, I think a lot of people are missing the point - the first episode is the set-up, to introduce the basic concepts and ideas. It's not a question of looking at specific resources or techniques (that level of detail for UK hunter-gatherers is now lost forever) but rather at the general problems and typical approaches.
You've also got to remember that we aren't the target audience - Joe Public is.
All in all, I thought it was a pretty good way to approach the problem, although I didn't find the specific information presented particularly new or interesting, and I'm definitely looking forward to the rest of the series.
You've also got to remember that we aren't the target audience - Joe Public is.
All in all, I thought it was a pretty good way to approach the problem, although I didn't find the specific information presented particularly new or interesting, and I'm definitely looking forward to the rest of the series.
It was different to his other stuff but I liked it. I can agree with both sides with regards to being the same sort of stuff but I like others here found myself fascinated by a more detailed insight into the hunter gatherer lifestyle.
My stupid VCR cut off the end of the programme so I didnt get to see the trailer but I assume it will be on tv anyways.
For those interested in what is in the next two episodes:
(Courtesy of Radios Times)
2/5 - Coast
Ray Mears embarks on a voyage of discovery into the lost foods of Britain's Stone Age. He tries out the processes they might have used, finds connections with cultures around the world and tastes the foods of our forefathers, starting with those resources found near the coast.
3/5 Wetland
Ray Mears embarks on a voyage of discovery into the lost foods of Britain's Stone Age, a journey that draws on all his bushcraft skills and knowledge of ancient ways of life around the world. Wetlands were the highways of Stone Age Britain and a habitat rich in wild foods. Ray processes water lily seeds, tries spear fishing from a canoe and tastes plant matter from a pollen core thousands of years old.
My stupid VCR cut off the end of the programme so I didnt get to see the trailer but I assume it will be on tv anyways.
For those interested in what is in the next two episodes:
(Courtesy of Radios Times)
2/5 - Coast
Ray Mears embarks on a voyage of discovery into the lost foods of Britain's Stone Age. He tries out the processes they might have used, finds connections with cultures around the world and tastes the foods of our forefathers, starting with those resources found near the coast.
3/5 Wetland
Ray Mears embarks on a voyage of discovery into the lost foods of Britain's Stone Age, a journey that draws on all his bushcraft skills and knowledge of ancient ways of life around the world. Wetlands were the highways of Stone Age Britain and a habitat rich in wild foods. Ray processes water lily seeds, tries spear fishing from a canoe and tastes plant matter from a pollen core thousands of years old.
hats off to RM for making a series on british bushcraft by starting with a nice long trip to Oz
not sure i agree with laying the foundations bit - you can't start every new series by ignoring the fact that you have covered all the points previously. in detail.
enjoyed it though!
not sure i agree with laying the foundations bit - you can't start every new series by ignoring the fact that you have covered all the points previously. in detail.
enjoyed it though!
Last night's episode will be repeated on Sunday:
BBC2, 8pm. No videoplus number given at RTimes yet.
It will be repeated again at 1.25 on the morning of
Wednesday 17th Jan as a signed version, BBC1.
VIDEO Plus+: 3937475
The second episode is on Wednesday (not Thur):
BBC2, 8pm VIDEO Plus+: 1359
and that will be repeated the following Saturday:
BBC2, 7.10pm VIDEO Plus+: 693110
The third episode will be on Wednesday 17th Jan:
BBC2, 8pm VIDEO Plus+: 8611
BBC2, 8pm. No videoplus number given at RTimes yet.
It will be repeated again at 1.25 on the morning of
Wednesday 17th Jan as a signed version, BBC1.
VIDEO Plus+: 3937475
The second episode is on Wednesday (not Thur):
BBC2, 8pm VIDEO Plus+: 1359
and that will be repeated the following Saturday:
BBC2, 7.10pm VIDEO Plus+: 693110
The third episode will be on Wednesday 17th Jan:
BBC2, 8pm VIDEO Plus+: 8611
I'd argue that it's quite the contrary - you can't start a new series by assuming that everyone watching has already seen your previous stuff. Heck, you can't even start a new season (or even episode) of an existing series assuming that everyone's seen the previous one... That was one of the factors that killed my beloved Farscape.
A similar mix of opinions over at the BBC's Forums:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbpointsofview/F1951566?thread=3781985
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbpointsofview/F1951566?thread=3781985
Dear all,
You have no idea how heartened I am to see some constructive and objective criticism about the 'Wild Food' series.
I should point out that, like many users of this forum, I am an ardent admirer of Ray Mears and his books/films/philosophy/skills/etc. Likewise with others like Mors Kachanski, Les Hiddins, etc. However, this does not mean that we should put them on a pedestal and that we are not allowed to criticise or disagree with our 'heroes' [for want of a better word], as long as we have a good argument.
I was worried that this thread would descend into the usual 'Ray can do no wrong', etc, with the majority of posts being along the lines of 'what was that watch he was wearing - where can I get one?', 'what shoes did he have on - I must buy some', and the other trivial minutiae.
What we actually have above is (mostly) a serious discussion on the programme itself and what we think it is trying to acheive, with an number of different angles, arguments and counter-arguments, and viewpoints already discussed. Now, I can't wait to see how the series develops!!!
I don't want to sound condescending but, surely this is the sort of thing we should be encouraging on the forum? There is always room for lighthearted posts ( ) and deeply technical equipment questions (though we don't have to talk about knives all the time - hint), etc, but isn't one of the essences of bushcraft not accepting things at face value? It's also about challenging the status quo, bringing something new to the subject, trying something different, and not agreeing blindly with what people say without thinking for ourselves.
We have medical, bushcraft, forestry, legal, military, language, history, biology, food, anthropology, etc, experts all using these forums and it's great to hear what they have to say as well as the non-expert people like myself. I learn all the time on this website.
More of this lively and refreshing discussion/debate on other threads, please!
Blimey - my tea's gone cold now...
You have no idea how heartened I am to see some constructive and objective criticism about the 'Wild Food' series.
I should point out that, like many users of this forum, I am an ardent admirer of Ray Mears and his books/films/philosophy/skills/etc. Likewise with others like Mors Kachanski, Les Hiddins, etc. However, this does not mean that we should put them on a pedestal and that we are not allowed to criticise or disagree with our 'heroes' [for want of a better word], as long as we have a good argument.
I was worried that this thread would descend into the usual 'Ray can do no wrong', etc, with the majority of posts being along the lines of 'what was that watch he was wearing - where can I get one?', 'what shoes did he have on - I must buy some', and the other trivial minutiae.
What we actually have above is (mostly) a serious discussion on the programme itself and what we think it is trying to acheive, with an number of different angles, arguments and counter-arguments, and viewpoints already discussed. Now, I can't wait to see how the series develops!!!
I don't want to sound condescending but, surely this is the sort of thing we should be encouraging on the forum? There is always room for lighthearted posts (
) and deeply technical equipment questions (though we don't have to talk about knives all the time - hint), etc, but isn't one of the essences of bushcraft not accepting things at face value? It's also about challenging the status quo, bringing something new to the subject, trying something different, and not agreeing blindly with what people say without thinking for ourselves.We have medical, bushcraft, forestry, legal, military, language, history, biology, food, anthropology, etc, experts all using these forums and it's great to hear what they have to say as well as the non-expert people like myself. I learn all the time on this website.
More of this lively and refreshing discussion/debate on other threads, please!
Blimey - my tea's gone cold now...
gregorach said:
Yes you can't assume that just because you've seen his stuff before everyone has, and you can't ask how native british hunter gatherers would have solved problems if you've never seen a hunter gatherer. Just because you've seen it before doesn't mean other people have.
There is a tendency to go slightly over the top in this regard on TV at the moment, but I wouldn't say that it's true in this case.
gregorach said:That was one of the factors that killed my beloved Farscape.
I'm with you there mate
. Even though I'd watched it from the beginning I had trouble working out what was going on towards the end, and a 5 minute recap didn't really help .I thought the programme was excellent.
I have watched all of Rays material and I still enjoyed watching him revisit Australia. Aboriginals have a real connection to the natural world and I will never tire of hearing them speak, or watching them go about their lives.
I think it is a miracle that they managed to retain so much of their culture following the British invasion and the attempts to systematically destroy their way of life. In more modern times the pressure has eased off and now modern Australians are starting to recognise the value of the aboriginal people although much of the damage has been done. Most of land where the rivers flow and forests bloom was taken by the British for food production or port and city building. My ancestors then infected the land with foxes, rabbits, honey bees and cane toads in the name of sport or farming. The extent of my ancestors ignorance in regards to the natural world is dumbfounding and this ignorance has forever changed Australia.
It is obvious to anyone that Australia is not the same as the UK, but as other people and Ray himself said in the programme these people know how to live off the land in a sustainable and enjoyable way. Our civilisation has been in existence for a blink of an eye and we have succeeded in reaching the brink of destruction. I believe that people who have lived in a similar way for 50,000 years have more knowledge to give than can ever be demonstrated in a couple of hours of television. If Ray needed to go to Australia to learn some more of this knowledge he is quite welcome to spend my license fee on the trip and I thank him for sharing a little of it through his programming.
I do not have any interest in Rays physical appearance or the cut of his clothes; he could be naked and weigh 20 stone for all I care. I hope he keeps evangelising on a more natural way of living and educating myself and my fellows for many years to come.
I have watched all of Rays material and I still enjoyed watching him revisit Australia. Aboriginals have a real connection to the natural world and I will never tire of hearing them speak, or watching them go about their lives.
I think it is a miracle that they managed to retain so much of their culture following the British invasion and the attempts to systematically destroy their way of life. In more modern times the pressure has eased off and now modern Australians are starting to recognise the value of the aboriginal people although much of the damage has been done. Most of land where the rivers flow and forests bloom was taken by the British for food production or port and city building. My ancestors then infected the land with foxes, rabbits, honey bees and cane toads in the name of sport or farming. The extent of my ancestors ignorance in regards to the natural world is dumbfounding and this ignorance has forever changed Australia.
It is obvious to anyone that Australia is not the same as the UK, but as other people and Ray himself said in the programme these people know how to live off the land in a sustainable and enjoyable way. Our civilisation has been in existence for a blink of an eye and we have succeeded in reaching the brink of destruction. I believe that people who have lived in a similar way for 50,000 years have more knowledge to give than can ever be demonstrated in a couple of hours of television. If Ray needed to go to Australia to learn some more of this knowledge he is quite welcome to spend my license fee on the trip and I thank him for sharing a little of it through his programming.
I do not have any interest in Rays physical appearance or the cut of his clothes; he could be naked and weigh 20 stone for all I care. I hope he keeps evangelising on a more natural way of living and educating myself and my fellows for many years to come.
I heartly agree with this - but it's not only Australia, they've managed to `educuate and convert` most of the pre-new world people. Think of the Aztecs, the native Indians, first nations people, the list goes on..
The only good think I hope comes from recognising these events from the past is learning from the mistakes made. To dwell on this in some kind of remorsefull self-pity because of what my ancestors may / may not have done I don't think's very usefull. It was very different times, with modern eyes I'm sure my great grandchildren will tutt and moan about my generation's spoiling the land, polluting the environment or whatever..
What i wondered, how did the Aboriginal people got there all them years ago. I mean austalia is in the middle of nowhere. Anyone wish to add to this?
I believe the main theory is that they migrated over land bridges during one of the ice ages. It is also perfectly possible that they crossed the Timor Sea - Australia is only in the middle of nowhere if you completely ignore all those islands in Micronesia.
gregorach said:I believe the main theory is that they migrated over land bridges during one of the ice ages. It is also perfectly possible that they crossed the Timor Sea - Australia is only in the middle of nowhere if you completely ignore all those islands in Micronesia.
I thought indigenous meant they origionated at that place, not migrated to ?
Nah, Indigenous means the people that lived there before western Europeans invaded...loz. said:
I think the use of aboriginal Australians was a bold move for a series like this.
I can well remember an occasion, whilst demonstrating ancient skills to a party of tourists, when a middle aged chap from Oz said to me "you're so lucky in this country to have all this old stuff around you. in Australia we haven't got any history to speak of."
The blank expression on his face when I pointed out that they had one of the last virtually intact stone age cultures on the planet spoke volumes. :twak:
I can well remember an occasion, whilst demonstrating ancient skills to a party of tourists, when a middle aged chap from Oz said to me "you're so lucky in this country to have all this old stuff around you. in Australia we haven't got any history to speak of."
The blank expression on his face when I pointed out that they had one of the last virtually intact stone age cultures on the planet spoke volumes. :twak:
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