near miss

[gaz_miggy]

ok set the scene, i was coming home from a scout camp and was walking up my street after beeing droped of by my sl with my 50l pack. when i get stoped by the police, and get asked whats in the bag, i say camping stuff iv just come bk from a camp and prodused my necker, not happy with this he asked me to empty the contens out in the street, tarp, hammock, sleeping bag, mat, then i get to the bottom 2 saws 2 axes and 3 knifes well his eyes lit up 1st with suprise and asked me to exsplain it all so i give the same as i sed, and was about to be arested when my sl terns up with my moblie and produseds his worent card and conferms my exsplanation,

sorry people just thort id have a rant cuz it anoyed me , any one els with any thing simaler

 

[Ed]

It happens mate.... I do feel for you....

Last year I was in a car travelling to private land to do some bushcraft and we got pulled (spot check for drugs apparently).... My rucksack was in the boot with my kit and they really were not happy about me having an axe in my bag.... in the boot of the car .... took about 2 hours before he was convinced and let me go

This year I was teaching a course locally on private land.... when a police turned up claiming that there was a report of someone with a knife.... they asked if I had a knife.... 'Yes' I said 'I have 12 .... and 12 saws 2 axes anda hatchet'....... It was only when i pointed out they were on private land and they had no warrant that they let me go... they wanted to arrest me and take me down the station to question me further.....

It happens mate..... its a pain..... just grin and bare it.

Ed

 

[SowthEfrikan]

What is happening over there? That's just bizarre. Bring back good, old fashioned, everyday common sense.

 

[leon-1]

It's simple when you look at it, these guys / girls have a job to do, they have guidelines the same as the Mods and Admin have on here.

That is normally down to the discresion of an individual, it's not easy even when you have "THIS IS RIGHT, THIS IS WRONG", a lot is down to thier own discresion. They are not always right, but they are doing it for the benefit of the community.

It's a nasty place to be and with hindsight some things you regret, others save lives.

I would prefer to send someone to the death penalty then have them, for instance "RAPE A CHILD", then that is upto you.

I will say this and that most judgement calls are correct for the police, I have been stopped and questioned before, I would rather that than a serial rapist or sex offender be set loose to harm again.

I have worked in support of the police, I would still be happy with what they have to say, they do not come up with conclusions with no reasons, people that think they do are IMO deluded.

 

[Ed]

It's simple when you look at it, these guys / girls have a job to do, they have guidelines the same as the Mods and Admin have on here.

Yep.... thats the way I looked at it.... they were not there to judge me..... thats the job of the courts.... they were there to check me out to make sure i wasn't doing anything wrong.

It did irk me a bit when they spent 2 hours pulling the car appart at the side of the road looking for drugs and their only reason was 'Well, your from Aberdare which is known for drugs' .... they found nothing of course (I had expained I'm a teacher who has regular criminal backgroung checks and drug testing) .... then when they found nothing he picked up the axe and wasn't happy about me having it in a bag in the boot.... claiming in a road rage incendent I may walk around the back of the car, open the boot, rumage through the rucksack, get the axe and use it to commit an offense...... he even swung the axe and said it had a nice weight.... he was going to take it away until I asked for his name and number and a reciept as I would need to claim it back either from them or my insurance, at which point he gave it back and told me to go on my way......

As for the second incident...... well they had to tresspass on private property to get to us, and you would have thought common sense at seeing a bushcraft camp, complete with parachute and 11 students may have given them an incling that there was something going on.... especially as there were 3ft high posters all around town (and in the police station) advertising the course..... and the fact one of their daughters was attending the course.... but no....

I just put it down to expierence and left it at that...... you live and learn..... and boy did I make him work when he attended the course a week later I got my revenge ..... he really didn't like game prep

Ed

 

[BorderReiver]

I just put it down to expierence and left it at that...... you live and learn..... and boy did I make him work when he attended the course a week later I got my revenge ..... he really didn't like game prep
Ed

That's what I call justice.

 

[Stuart]

I just put it down to expierence and left it at that...... you live and learn..... and boy did I make him work when he attended the course a week later I got my revenge ..... he really didn't like game prep

did you make him complete all the tasks without the aid of any edged tools!

"ok guys now that we have seen how to make feather sticks could you produce four each as shown with your own knife............. except you john, you'll be using your fingers"

 

[Fluxus]

I have worked in support of the police, I would still be happy with what they have to say, they do not come up with conclusions with no reasons, people that think they do are IMO deluded.

With respect Leon, that is merely your opinion - I have had plenty of contact with individual police officers who have been extremely prejudiced and have cooked up all sorts of daft notions to nail a person with views or lifestyle that they dissaprove of. Police are just people in a uniform - I give them respect when they've earnt it - usually by just being polite.
Flux

 

[ilan]

Think this shows you cannot be comlacent about carrying any sharp or pointy thing . There are very few places you can carry , without risk !! ie any where with public access is a no no. scout sites , camp sites you car (in a public place ) . Its scarry and the law is loaded against you . I would also suggest if you are or look young then definatly dont carry any thing except a pocket folder

 

[chewie]

I'd like to think you would spend an awfully long time looking for a police officer who had a problem with possessing axes or bushcraft knives at a scout camp, and still not find one.

Unless of course the person with the axe was an escaped axe murderer.....

 

[falling rain]

Oh laaaaawwd................... not this old chestnut again.

I asked a friend who is a police sergeant in Aylesbury sometime ago about this whole issue and it really depends on location, context, behaviour of the person.
If I got stopped I would be polite and give a good explanation of myself. Yoofs (not generalising here but I mean trouble making yobs) arn't inclined to be respectful to the police. If I was waving my knife around walking down the middle of the shopping mall I would expect to be arrested. If I happened to have my knife on my person in that mall and happened to be stopped I don't think I could give any good reason to have it on me. It surely is about place and behaviour of the individual and what you're doing with your knife at the time, and if you're not doing anything with it, but have it on you, in rucksack or boot of car then most coppers if not all will accept you are a bushcrafter, and have no malicious intents. At least that's what I beleive and would expect from our police force.

 

[Tengu]

Cheer up, at least you arent muslims....

My mother who was a pillar of the community taught me never to trust the fuzz. (presumably as a pillar of the community they would have jumped on her if they suspected her of anything remotley wrong.)

Where I live they have very little to do, so I have been stopped (in my car) for the flimsiest of excuses. like `you know your make and model of car is often stolen`

once there was a drug check. Why? in my experience the police always know who the dealers are, and if they dont, wouldnt it be easier to go ask a DRUG ADDICT????????

but its so amusing to see how their attitudes change when they see Im of the unfair sex. One of them after getting my hostile stare (a permenent part of my face, I wasnt using it specialy for him) called for a WPC as backup.

 

[sam_acw]

It is fightening.
It seems that policemen believe that they have to stop crime therefore they have to stop people. As they are stopping people and crime, the people they are stopping must be criminals
If that doesn't scare you enough go to a magistrates court

 

[ilan]

Oh laaaaawwd................... not this old chestnut again.

I asked a friend who is a police sergeant in Aylesbury sometime ago about this whole issue and it really depends on location, context, behaviour of the person.
If I got stopped I would be polite and give a good explanation of myself. Yoofs (not generalising here but I mean trouble making yobs) arn't inclined to be respectful to the police. If I was waving my knife around walking down the middle of the shopping mall I would expect to be arrested. If I happened to have my knife on my person in that mall and happened to be stopped I don't think I could give any good reason to have it on me. It surely is about place and behaviour of the individual and what you're doing with your knife at the time, and if you're not doing anything with it, but have it on you, in rucksack or boot of car then most coppers if not all will accept you are a bushcrafter, and have no malicious intents. At least that's what I beleive and would expect from our police force.

I think you would be wrong . If its outside the prescribed limits then you would be done . I think I read on bb that a person was stopped at a security check at an exhibition center and found to have a folding knife with a blade of 3.1/8 ins he claimed it was to peel his lunch time apple and was fined . Give the start of this thread from a differen perspective you have a young lad Under 18 in a public street with 2 axes and three knives ? As a leader i would not have let him do that . ilan

 

[chewie]

This has all been discussed ad nauseum here. Let us not trample over old ground again, please??????

 

[laurens ch]

You should technically be able to carry knives axes etc if you have a reasonable reason no mater what your age. At least you could a few months ago when I asked on bb, with the knife amnesty police officers might be a little tetchy

 

[Goose]

I think you would be wrong . If its outside the prescribed limits then you would be done . I think I read on bb that a person was stopped at a security check at an exhibition center and found to have a folding knife with a blade of 3.1/8 ins he claimed it was to peel his lunch time apple and was fined . Give the start of this thread from a differen perspective you have a young lad Under 18 in a public street with 2 axes and three knives ? As a leader i would not have let him do that . ilan

Gaz is over 18 he is a member of the scout network, who dont have leaders as such.
And although some of the comments about looking like a (potential) axe murderer may be true , perhaps the bobbies that pulled him over should have looked at the bigger picture, location, his own street, other kit carried, obviously camping/bushcraft kit and his story that he was returning from scout camp should have been enough to avoid arrest as he, to any reasonable person, "had good reason". If I had been his leader returning his mobile, not in possesion of a warrant card, would I have been arrested too? I would have been carrying as many if not more sharp objects.
I had cause to count today and found I had five "sharps" with me, two were legal EDC multi tools, one was my rescue lock knife,one my mora, and one my folding saw, the saw mora and lock knife were in my bumbag that contains my first aid kit and kit for work including the knives, I may not use any or all of them on any given day but if I leave them behind it will be the time I need them. I know the risks involved, from the Police not H&S, but I feel my job is good enough reason to have these tools with me when I leave for or return from work.
I feel that a scout camp falls into good reason, and if one of my explorers(14-18 years) was to bring a knife to camp I would support and advise rather than stop them carrying a blade of any description.

 

[falling rain]

I think you would be wrong . If its outside the prescribed limits then you would be done .

Yes ilan. If you read carefully what I've written, that's what I've tried to say.

 

[Spacemonkey]

I think the whole point of this thread is the 'lack of common sense' and 'failure to see the whole context' on the part of all the relevant stories' bobbies. That to me is the worrying part of this. Surely in all the contexts it really shouldn't be getting to accompanying them to the station? The whole idea of the relevant laws is that you are safe if you have reasonable excuse. These guys did. They proved it too. That should have been the end of.

Also how to define 'carrying'? Surely an axe in the hand or a knife in the pocket is 'carrying', but packed away in a rucksack on your back, or better still in a locked car boot? Surely that is not 'carrying'?? Can anyone elaborate on this?

 

[Stew]

Also how to define 'carrying'? Surely an axe in the hand or a knife in the pocket is 'carrying', but packed away in a rucksack on your back, or better still in a locked car boot? Surely that is not 'carrying'?? Can anyone elaborate on this?

That's a good point. They're all carrying but there's better ways of carrying.
From the sound of it Gaz had his sharps packed at the bottom of his rucksack which has to be the most sensible option when travelling to/from an event as it makes them hard to reach in a hurry.

Oh and I believe that legally a car is classed as a public place...