Naked and lost

[demographic]

If you have any "mates" you even think might do this to you, take a seriously hard look and ask yourself yer mates are such tosspots and if it's maybe you thats part of the problem.

 

[TeeDee]

I think maybe the OP's question was not so much about could one survive but how much difference to the survivability would just some basic clothing make?

Most of us feel comfortable enough to walk around in spring and summer ( during daylight hours at least ) in just a light T-shirt. - How much does the T-shirt actually benefit us?

Again, Shorts/Skirts/Kilts are a relatively small piece of clothing but we seem content to move around during the day in those without issue.

I'm sure we must have some Naturists here who probably can offer better insight into the when during a year they feel they cannot go Naked due to the environmental issues.

 

[Deleted member 56522]

TLM, you may be correct; the Fuegians were famed for their lack of clothes in a cold climate. Whether they were THE most cold adapted...no idea.

(The last Yaghan speaker died a couple of months back I believe).

The Neanderthals were well adapted to the cold, so I suspect they might not have bothered much with clothing.

Interesting. I found a paper on cold adaptation which said that apart from being shorter and stouter, the Yaghan's only cold adaptation was that they had a higher resting heat generation (160% of normal). Australian Aborigines were likewise cold adapted (for sleeping outside when temperatures drop to ~0C). But it went on to say that most people could start to adapt this way ... but it took over 14 days in the cold.

The big difference, is that people who are not cold adapted shiver instead.

So, I'm thinking that if you got under the trees (to reduce thermal radiation), found a bed of pine needles or other vegetation to lie on (to reduce thermal conduction into the ground), and made a simple shelter of branches or even a wall to cut down wind and stop air movement, on a summer night you could make it through the night, albeit you'd be shivering and won't get a lot of sleep.

So, I'm thinking of this:

Get down to the wood and spend half an hour looking for a ditch or hollow or fallen tree, etc. Then first gather (dryish) wood/vegetation to put down to form a raised platform mattress, then cover with branches leaving a small space to wriggle in and make the opening BELOW the height of the platform (in the manner of a snow cave), this should help trap warmer air. Then just keep piling on vegetation, moss, turf, leaving only the small opening. Finally put a wall/branches to block wind on the entrance side.

Hopefully by the time you finish the energetic building of the shelter it will be getting light and you can start walking out (joke - ish)

 

[TLM]

I found a paper on cold adaptation which said that apart from being shorter and stouter, the Yaghan's only cold adaptation was that they had a higher resting heat generation (160% of normal). Australian Aborigines were likewise cold adapted (for sleeping outside when temperatures drop to ~0C). But it went on to say that most people could start to adapt this way ... but it took over 14 days in the cold.

People continually living in cold temps have the "brown fat" mechanism of heat generation, it works with out shivering. I remember reading (From: "Life in the extreme" I think) that the first adaptation takes about two weeks but one tends to lose that fast when returning to more normal temps.

 

[Deleted member 56522]

People continually living in cold temps have the "brown fat" mechanism of heat generation, it works with out shivering. I remember reading (From: "Life in the extreme" I think) that the first adaptation takes about two weeks but one tends to lose that fast when returning to more normal temps.

That sounds like the same change. Another really simple adaptation is to cut down blood supply to the limbs, another is "goose bumps. I know goose bumps are created by small muscles, I presume there are muscles that construct the blood to the limbs, and I suppose like all muscles they can get flabby if not exercised????

So, I'd guess if you regularly took cold showers to trigger the cold response, you might fare better than someone who just sat in an air conditioned room/car all the time??

 

[Laurentius]

Warmth is generated by activity, I have found myself going down to my allotment in winter, well wrapped up, and then when I start digging and work up a sweat, off come the extra layers. In order to sustain the activity however you need calories, so foraging would be a good idea I think.

 

[eraaij]

Scenario: You were on a stag/hen do and the next thing you know: you wake up naked in the middle of nowhere, the sun is getting low. What do you do? Priorities?

Details: it's early summer in what looks like Scotland. You're on a hillock giving good views many miles to the mountains all around except toward the sun where the horizon dips. There is no sign of any roads, fences or man-made shelters, just a few deer on the hills. From the hillock it is 200m down grassy patches of grey scree to the flattish valley bottom where the small river runs into a mixed species wood (looks like small withered oak, birch, willow, occasional pine & Scots Pine). Peering into the sun you see the wood fills the valley bottom as far as it can be seen. Upstream are patches of grass, heather, bog and bracken. You estimate two hours till sunset, three perhaps four till pitch black. The weather is dry, mild with patches of sunshine, but being naked on the hillock you are noticing the wind and already feeling cold.

The last thing you remember of your stag/Hen do, is boasting to your extremely rich friend that you could survive anywhere.

Whatever this text adventure will throw at me down the road -I will not start a fight with the Dwarf.

 

[TeeDee]

Whatever this text adventure will throw at me down the road -I will not start a fight with the Dwarf.

Ahhhh, I used to be an adventurer.. then I took an Arrow to the knee.

 

[Allison McKenzie]

That’s very similar to the strategy: ‘start discussing the benefits of a more plant based diet and someone will soon appear to tell you that you are wrong’…

It is like the old joke 'how do you know if someone is a vegan?'

'Don't worry, they will tell you'

 

[Paul_B]

I think coping with cold has an element of being used to it. The first time you take a swim whitewater kayaking (an activity usually done in the colder and wetter months of the year in the UK) you usually panic with the cold. Sooner or later you stop that initial panic, then eventually you learn a bombproof roll or two and rarely take the swim.

Similarly I've had winter seasons in the lakeland fells, back when we had winters, where I've felt cold and ones I've felt OK. All while doing the same things with the same kit. Ime letting a little weight gain for winter kayaking season helped too, but I think when I was the fittest I also coped better with heat and cold.

Anyone know the effects of fitness levels on coping with temperatures not conducive to a naked humans welfare?

 

[Paul_B]

As to the OPs scenario I think in the UK I'd just follow a water course downstream safely of course, no ghyll scrambling. Usually you'd get somewhere safe I think. In other countries I don't know how good an idea that is. In the UK I'd focus on getting to help rather than trying to survive in the environment. I'm no expert but to me that makes sense. Only if you come round late in the day without much light left would I risk an overnight instead of escape to safety.

 

[TLM]

Anyone know the effects of fitness levels on coping with temperatures not conducive to a naked humans welfare?

If I only deciphered this correctly: I have a faint recollection that fitness level and cold tolerance are not connected in any meaningful way.

 

[Broch]

Kephart advised not following streams/rivers as you would have to swim across/wade through tributaries and even the main flow itself. He advised walking the ridges as it is often easier ground and has more visibility of terrain.

Of course, he was talking about a different landscape but it does show there's no 'right' answer to these problems.

 

[TLM]

Kephart advised not following streams/rivers as you would have to swim across/wade through tributaries and even the main flow itself. He advised walking the ridges as it is often easier ground and has more visibility of terrain.

Depends very much on the terrain but I guess that probably holds more often than not. On the other hand if starting naked my main problem would be to find terrain that I can walk bare footed, lawn preferred, fine sand next.

 

[Stew]

I think coping with cold has an element of being used to it. The first time you take a swim whitewater kayaking (an activity usually done in the colder and wetter months of the year in the UK) you usually panic with the cold. Sooner or later you stop that initial panic, then eventually you learn a bombproof roll or two and rarely take the swim.

Similarly I've had winter seasons in the lakeland fells, back when we had winters, where I've felt cold and ones I've felt OK. All while doing the same things with the same kit. Ime letting a little weight gain for winter kayaking season helped too, but I think when I was the fittest I also coped better with heat and cold.

Anyone know the effects of fitness levels on coping with temperatures not conducive to a naked humans welfare?

This is worth a listen if you are interested in cold water shock:

Cold Water Paddling – with Professor Mike Tipton MBE

<p><strong>In this episode, the University of Portsmouth's Professor Mike Tipton, a world leader in extreme environmental physiology talks about the eff...

castbox.fm

 

[BigMonster]

 

[Allison McKenzie]

Oh gosh, that looks unpleasant. My friend said they thought you were allowed a bikini and flip flops when you were stranded on a hen do

 

[TeeDee]

.

 

[TeeDee]

This is worth a listen if you are interested in cold water shock:

Cold Water Paddling – with Professor Mike Tipton MBE

<p><strong>In this episode, the University of Portsmouth's Professor Mike Tipton, a world leader in extreme environmental physiology talks about the eff...

castbox.fm

So , upon reflection this is quite a good illustration of how cold water shock can affect different people.


This is myself and some friends swimming well inside the Arctic Circle in Norway.
Before this I had been wild swimming and cold water swimming and tolerance building for probably 18 months or so.

My friends , not so much..


#### There is a little swearing at 30 secs in , so if easily offended or a child please don't watch ( or hear ) ####

It interesting to see how Cold adaption and immediate Cold water shock can effect people.

It would be quite easy to see how if one fell into Cold water without prior conditioning (?) how motor skills go from 'fine' into 'panic flail' mode very quickly.

This was a very shallow easy to access area , but imagining it to be a crack in Ice or a steep embankment without easy exit routes out would leave one in quite serious trouble.

 

[Deleted member 56522]

That's extreme!! Overnight with just a loin cloth in temperatures well below freezing. Shows the importance of a fire. But also shows the importance of natural shelter out of the wind.