Mugged on a hike

[Man of Tanith]

That was the point. Perhaps it's time you did.

Because one man got mugged?
Sorry but we havent the love affair with firearms that America has.
5 oiks against 1 chap
Already down on the floor after being blindsided.
How is a gun going to do anything other than get you hurt? Unless you are practiced in some pretty intense and specialised skills usually only demonstrated in hollywood movies.
Especially as they wont be using knives if they think there is the potential their victim is going to bave a firearm.

Whilst i have no issues with firearms i dont see any change in UK law.
We have managed fine without them.
Firearms are still available for those with licenses.

A "helpful" comment on an internet forum from someone who isnt a resident of this country is hardly going to change anything and that particular comment wasnt helpful,smacked of machismo and added nothing to the discussion and was especially lacking in any empathy or compasssion to Nephilim.

Things are replaceable
People arent

 

[Brynglas]

I agree with you about the property stolen, it's of little consequence. However when they chose to use deadly force (the knife in this case) that warrants a reply with deadly force. Whenever anybody threatens me or my family or loved ones, there will be a dissproporianate response.

This is a very American response.
I'm not going too far off thread here but there's no way that that sort of response is either justifiable or proportionate in the UK. The UK doesn't suffer anywhere near the level of crime that the US does and we generally have a far more effective legal system, despite the occasional horror story.

 

[santaman2000]

......How is a gun going to do anything other than get you hurt? Unless you are practiced in some pretty intense and specialised skills usually only demonstrated in hollywood movies.....

Actually tactical firearms training is fairly cheaply obtained. Agreed Nephilim was at a disadvantage. Pursuant to that reality, the single best defense against this or any other crime is situational awareness. That fact will never change.

 

[santaman2000]

This is a very American response.....

Thank you! But more importantly it's a man's response. Only a coward is unwilling to protect his family or loved ones. I make no apologies for being either an American or a man; I'm quite proud of both.

 

[Brynglas]

In the US yes it is, and we see weekly, the tragic effect that ready access to firearms has in the US. Thankfully, access to firearms is limited in the UK and correspondingly the rates of violent crime, firearms related and otherwise are far, far lower.

 

[Toddy]

…..and not appropriate on a British forum. Especially one supposed to be safe for viewing in schools and workplaces.

There were no firearms involved in the mugging. There was no need to introduce them into this thread.

Toddy

 

[Brynglas]

I'm happy to discuss this further with you by pm, or another thread but not this one.

 

[santaman2000]

…..There were no firearms involved in the mugging. There was no need to introduce them into this thread.

Toddy

There were deadly weapons involved. So far your criminals are dumb; they'll get smarter.

 

[Man of Tanith]

I get the impression from the rest of the post that it wasnt meant as a compliment perse Santaman

Responding to parts of posts doesnt really answer the rest of the post now does it?

5 on 1 in any situation is gonna be tricksome.

Anyways i am not going to argue the toss over it.
We are a predominantly UK based bushcraft forum.
Arguing about the use of something that isnt available here is a bit like sayin i am ever so grateful i havent been attacked by leopard this week. Because its very very very (unless you work in a zoo) unlikely you will encounter a leopard. Similarly stating if i had my gun no one would take anything from me by knifepoint is really rather pointless.
Like if i added no one would take anything from me by gun point if i had my intercontinental ballistic missle.

Lets please not make this into an argument about firearms. Its not the place for such.
My thanks for your understanding on this.

 

[Samon]

Smart and stupid people make bad decisions. We can only hope a proper punishment is dealt to these kids, aswell as a lesson in respect for others while they do their time.

Really is no need to fantisize about ballistic penile extensions coming into the equation, it is what it is and thankfully no one got seriously hurt.

 

[dewi]

Blimey, this thread changed direction really rather rapidly!

 

[santaman2000]

I get the impression from the rest of the post that it wasnt meant as a compliment perse Santaman

Responding to parts of posts doesnt really answer the rest of the post now does it?

5 on 1 in any situation is gonna be tricksome.......

Sorry but my technical abilities don't allow me to split a comment and answer each bit clearly and separately so I do what I can.

Agreed he didn't mean it to be a compliment but I chose to thank him rather than correct him. It seemed the polite thing to do.

Also agreed that 5 on one is going to be troublesome and agreed that Nephilim was at a further disadvantage having been surprised. Training and reflex compensate for that to a degree; but more importantly so does the normal reality that such jacka$$#$ as the muggers are usually bluffing and run when confronted. Even if they were more ably armed with firearms.

 

[Brynglas]

Sorry but my technical abilities don't allow me to split a comment and answer each bit clearly and separately so I do what I can.

Agreed he didn't mean it to be a compliment but I chose to thank him rather than correct him. It seemed the polite thing to do.

Also agreed that 5 on one is going to be troublesome and agreed that Nephilim was at a further disadvantage having been surprised. Training and reflex compensate for that to a degree; but more importantly so does the normal reality that such jacka$$#$ as the muggers are usually bluffing and run when confronted. Even if they were more ably armed with firearms.

You're obviously fishing for some sort of response here. I see from your profile that you served in the air force for a number of years, I don't know what your trade was but I'm surprised at the naivety and inappropriate tone of your response considering your background.

 

[Man of Tanith]

But you can split some parts out rather than quote the whole post.....

Its really not the place for situational awareness, bluffin muggers or generally showing that you are a rough tough bad dude.

They werent packin heat.

Last chance stop this line of discussion, accept the UK is different to the USA,accept we in the UK dont feel the need to be tactical when we go for a walk in the woods and stop talking about firearms.

 

[santaman2000]

You're obviously fishing for some sort of response here. I see from your profile that you served in the air force for a number of years, I don't know what your trade was but I'm surprised at the naivety and inappropriate tone of your response considering your background.

After retiring from the Air Force I did another 13 years in civilian law enforcement and corrections.

 

[Brynglas]

After retiring from the Air Force I did another 13 years in civilian law enforcement and corrections.

Well I'm even more puzzled then. On that basis, your response is both rash and irresponsible.

 

[santaman2000]

....Its really not the place for situational awareness, bluffin muggers or generally showing that you are a rough tough bad dude......

It's never a place to bluff muggers. My comment was meant that they are usually bluffing. However once they display a deadly weapon, or other ability for deadly force (in this case the very disparity of the numbers----5 to 1) then my response will be with deadly force and I never bluff.

 

[mrcharly]

Sorry to hear you've had this experience but glad that you at least have your knife back.

My daughter was mugged about a week ago. Grabbed from behind, forced into a crouch and her phone nicked. Not hurt apart from bruises and a loss of confidence. Really horrible experience. As she didn't see any part of her attacker apart from their legs, nothing the police can do (although they were very helpful and supportive at the time).

 

[santaman2000]

Well I'm even more puzzled then. On that basis, your response is both rash and irresponsible.

Self defense or the defense of others is predicated (legally here) on the belief that you or the third party is at danger. The legality of using deadly force for said defense is predicated on the belief that the attacker has the ability and intent to kill or do great bodily harm. Notice I said the "belief." It's only necessary to prove that you acted as any rational person would in coming to that belief. The active display of a deadly weapon (in this case the knife) is more than enough for a rational person to believe he's in such danger (just likje the various police academies teach and just like the courts consistently rule)

 

[Imagedude]

So, for a knife, a phone, an axe and a saw, you'd choose to end someone's life ???


M

It's their choice, muggers do not set the rules of retaliation. Sadly we have a culture in the UK of not punishing assailants, we need to reduce these crimes by having a suitable deterrent e.g. 12 years minimum with no parole.