Modifying a firearm in the UK

[Countryman]

Here's a good one. It is technically illegal to dismantle a cartridge in this country (under the provisions of the Explosives Act 1875, it is illegal to dismantle ammunition other than in a licensed factory). Which leads to two questions

1) What the heck is one supposed to do if a primer fails? Hand it in at a police station? They would be delighted I'm sure

2) Am I breaking the law when I fire a gun? Surely the act of striking a primer with a firing pin causes the cartridge to disassemble??

Okay, I am fairly certain this is because, when the act was passed one could recover explosives (black powder) from ammunition - now you cannot (unless its a black powder cartridge of course). Even BASC have never heard of a prosecution of a reloader with a kinetic hammer...but still....

News to me. I did however hand over a little pot of .38 ammo to my Firearms Licensing Officer last week that my Lee 1000 had Fubared and that wouldn't come apart.

Notionally you can do this or hand them in to a Registered Firearms Dealer who you can imagine as a small business will be only too delighted to take your crap from you.

 

[spandit]

I have in my possession a silencer for my .22 air rifle - how is that different from a moderator that would fit a .22LR?

Interesting stuff here, it's changed my opinion of the 10/22 as I'll be wanting it for hunting

 

[British Red]

I think you have two opinions here spandit. Mine and countrymans

Mine is that all rifles perform better with some brands of ammo than others, but that you can make a 10/22 run quite happily on subsonic ammo (I have owned 10/22s for decades so this is hardly based on a dearth of knowledge).

That said, given you want to hunt, it is undeniable that a manually cycled rifle can handle a lighter load and a wider variety of loads than a blowback based semi auto. For a hunting only rifle, I would go bolt action every time.

There are moderators made that suit air rifles and rimfires - its an anomaly for sure.

 

[mickeyluv]

I have 2 10/22 s that I use for hunting, both bought second hand for peanuts, both of which have proved 100% reliable with winchester subsonics. (Had a couple of miscycles with eley though)

 

[BillyBlade]

Countryman, thanks for all the info posted, as someone who is new to the civilian side of firearms it's been really interesting with regard to how restrictive and indeed contradictory the law is.

Also, I was reluctant to post my opinion on the 10/22 after all the love it was getting shown. My opinion is the same as yours, in that I've seen a lot of them which are very fussy eaters. Hence why I spent a bit extra and went for a different choice. So far it's eaten everything from CCI to Remington to Centurion to Eley and never had a failure to cycle. Not one.

Some great info on this thread. Hope it keeps coming

 

[spandit]

I take it the police wouldn't be too happy if I converted a 10/22 to fully automatic?

@BillyBlade, what did you buy?

 

[BillyBlade]

I take it the police wouldn't be too happy if I converted a 10/22 to fully automatic?

@BillyBlade, what did you buy?

Happy? They'd be overjoyed! Think of the chief of police getting all that airtime on the 6 o clock news! Dont worry, we'll all send you phonecards not sure how you'd the annual checkride from cell 23b though!

Not the best at this image posting thing mate, but here is mine. Its since had a foregrip and lightweight folding bipod added on.

http://imgur.com/hSZ5fAC.jpg

 

[British Red]

No!

On a serious note, I would spend some time considering what the rifle is for. If its purely a hunting rifle, then the needs are different to a target rifle which are different again to one designed for practical or "mini rifle" competitions. This isn't only about the action, but also the type of sights, the need for a moderator, the lightness of trigger etc. Of course ultimately, any configuration can be used, but why not pick what's most suitable? I had a shoot with a nice CZ bolt action recently - great rimfire hunting rifle.

 

[BillyBlade]

CZ bolt gun, now there is a lovely thing

 

[widu13]

I have in my possession a silencer for my .22 air rifle - how is that different from a moderator that would fit a .22LR?

Interesting stuff here, it's changed my opinion of the 10/22 as I'll be wanting it for hunting

Many are marketed as interchangeable between air and rimfire. A rimmy mod is a different animal to a centrefire mod.

 

[spandit]

I'd like a semi so I can get a second shot down range quickly if I miss hit on the first go, to avoid any undue suffering to the animal. I think moderated would be good too - would help with complaints from neighbours if I'm doing some target shooting

It's all theoretical until the house purchase goes through. Then there's the delay in getting an FAC issued (if they approve it!) but it's a fun discussion.

 

[Countryman]

Ok on a serious note changing or even having components that might make a gun Section 5 (illegal) is a mandatory 5 year prison sentence.

Air rifle moderators are not proofed for firearms. When you put it on a centre fire you are braking the law. Mandatory 5 year prison sentence.

Just don't.

 

[Countryman]

The other factor to consider in your bunny gun is the report. (Bang!) So you have moderators and subsonic ammo. Fat load of good when the bolt of your semi auto clatters back of the buffer.

I love the Ruger 10-22 but a good bunny gun it ain't. Try a Sako FinFire it will never let you down. Longer range bunnies may need a .17 hmr or similar. No option of that in Semi Auto nor sub sonic ammo but at 120 meters even a novice can head shoot bunnies and no hint of ricochet risk as we have now with hard ground.

However before you buy a gun for the job go shoot with a mentor so you understand what works for your ground.

Finally and this is important. A .22 with a military profile will get the Armed Response Unit called where a bloke with a hunting profile rifle will not. There are a lot of anti's and bunny lovers in this country. Don't give them any excuse.

 

[spandit]

The other factor to consider in your bunny gun is the report

Don't worry, I'll write a full report when the time comes

Regarding military look, I did state (twice) I didn't want anything military looking!

Didn't realise .22 was the only semi-auto calibre you can get in the UK, apart from 3-shot shotguns.

The land I'm buying is only 10 acres so won't need to shoot over vast distances

 

[spandit]

Would an RFD be able to let me try a gun before buying (or bring a selection to mine or a convenient location)?

How long does an FAC take to come through? Looking to apply in September... might have to buy it on a credit card, that's if my cabinet is suitable...

 

[Countryman]

Yes but a shotgun that holds more than 2 can only legally be used on vermin.

Our laws are ludicrous but we work within them! They banned Semi Autos and they banned pistols. I feel so much safer now criminals can't have guns.

Provided you are not a prohibited person and not a child an RFD with access to a range can let you try a gun. They will probably check your FAC to make sure you aren't a day dreamer.

Which county are you in? Firearms licensing is a county lottery I'm afraid. Some are 6 months right now. Some are a month. A lot depends on your references.

Happy to help. Spot the gun nerd.

 

[spandit]

I thought I'd take this approach:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whadmRePr_8

I'm in East Sussex, I have a few FAC holders that can referee for me and one who might act as a mentor. I won't hold my breath for shooting my Christmas dinner!

 

[spandit]

I feel so much safer now criminals can't have guns

They can't have fixed or locking knives either - that's why no-one ever gets stabbed any more

 

[Countryman]

I can find out for you but your FAC buddies will know.

Firearms referees are not about owning guns. You need fine upstanding professionals with untarnished records who have known you more than 2 years.

Access to a mentor will make up for a lack of firearms experience.

The system is set up to deter applicants who are not utterly determined.

I would prefer a system that was harder on checks on the individual (psych evaluation etc) but less prescriptive on the hardware. If I'm not safe to own any particular gun I shouldn't have them at all.

If I can own own a deer rifle and expanding missiles which is an effective sniper rifle capable of clean kills, quietly at over 1km or a 10 shot shotgun then how on earth can I not be trusted with a .22 target pistol?

Laws an bottom but we respect it none the less.

 

[santaman2000]

.....I love the Ruger 10-22 but a good bunny gun it ain't. Try a Sako FinFire it will never let you down. Longer range bunnies may need a .17 hmr or similar. No option of that in Semi Auto nor sub sonic ammo but at 120 meters even a novice can head shoot bunnies and no hint of ricochet risk as we have now with hard ground......

I'll be the first to admit I haven't "googled" anything about a 10-22's reliability or fussiness with ammo. I have however been around roughly a dozen of them. Two I bought for different grandkids, two more owned by uncles, and 8 or 10 more of various friends. ALL shot just fine with whatever was fed them. All regularly take bunnies, squirrels, bobcats, and the occasional coyote (although I'd prefer a bigger caliber for the latter)

A 17 HMR would be fun I suppose; if only it were a legal hunting caliber. Unfortunately, over here it isn't. Neither is a 22 Magnum. By the way the 10-22 also comes in either of those two calibers; the 10-22M and the 10-17. I believe the logic (here) is that they're afraid someone hunting with those calibers will be tempted to poach deer with them (you're not the only ones who have strange or weird laws )

As to the AR comment on the receiver, Actually if I remember correctly, both the upper and lower receivers are controlled here but I won't swear to that. Moderators (or silencers as they're called here) also take a separate license and are rarely if ever used for hunting. They're thought of as an assassin's weapon (another case of misguided logic over here)

All that said, is the 10-22 the perfect hunting rifle for small game? Of course not; it is however perfectly adequate and especially so when shooting at running (vs stationary bunnies or bobcats) as is common when hunting in front of dogs. And a 10-22 IS one of the more versatile (as in one rifle for many tasks; small game, plinking, target practice, etc.) A CZ bolt is also excellent. A shotgun is by far better. 120 meters at a bunny? Definitely possible, but where's the fun in that?