Legality of living in a yurt in the UK...

[Theda]

Excellent research.
I would present my case to the council.
Create a 'spiel' about sustainability, low impact, you know, these fashionable buzz words.

It sounds like it is a very exciting property to develop!

Thanks! I like the idea of creating a 'spiel'...heh heh! But it would all be true... we really do need to do something with redundant buildings... the pump house has been empty for more than 30 years... various applications have been refused... it's such a shame as it could be much nicer visually than it is now... especially when I have created the hedgerow and wildflower meadow... the pond is under way, but every time it rains, clay washes down from higher land and muddies the water... not good for all the little creatures that have appeared since we dug it...
I have a genuine interest in the history of this land... I find it all so fascinating... the men who dug the well... all dead now... possibly buried in the church down the road...who were they and what were the difficulties they endured whist digging such a deep well? I have found several glass bottles dating back to around the 1930s or earlier... from what I can deduce, they were very much into Bovril and milk... and whisky! Oh, there is a blue poison bottle, too... I wonder what ailed that person?
You start to imagine also the possibility of anyone falling into the well over the past 100 years... whether by accident or otherwise...!! If someone had a grudge it would be easy to conceal the crime...
Doesn't bear thinking about... but it now has a padlocked hatch and I've rigged up the pump so that I no longer have to open it up to power it...
On searching the archives, I found that the well provided a plentiful and extremely pure supply to the whole area, albeit with high sodium levels and fluoride content, which, over time would turn teeth very brown, apparently... I probably won't be drinking it but it has been very useful for irrigation so far... especially during the long hot summer we had last year...
Today I will be glazing a few of the Crittall windows in the pump house... 3 have been smashed...probably by vandals..there is a bit of graffiti, too...
I hope the council planners will left me keep the silo, as I would hate to have to pull it all down after working so hard almost single handedly to put it up... but if not, I could definitely spruce up the pump house... perhaps clad the brickwork with weatherboarding, etc...
It has been a lifetime ambition to have my own nature reserve... I need the solitude... the rented house I'm living in at the moment on a large housing estate which is very depressing for someone who has always lived out in the sticks...

Wish me luck, please! x

 

[mousey]

One thing that interests me with 'off grid living' / vanning [is that a real word!]/ boating just mobile living really, is the not having an address thing - no fixed abode. What do you put on your driving licence, how do you receive important communications etc.

So far it seems people use PO box [not seen as legitimate address for some purposes]
Using family [assuming you have any / you get on well enough with them !]
Using friends [assuming you have any / get on well enough with them !]
I've heard of 'Poste Restante' getting a post office to agree to use their address for you:-

Person name,
Post Restante,
***** Post Office,
Address,

You'll need ID to pick it up. I've not really looked into it / if it is a legitimate address for all purposes



Most services can be carried out online.

What about being employed, don't they need an address? - could your employment be your address, yes you don't live there but you can be contacted there??

 

[Theda]

The silo.....

 

[Theda]

One thing that interests me with 'off grid living' / vanning [is that a real word!]/ boating just mobile living really, is the not having an address thing - no fixed abode. What do you put on your driving licence, how do you receive important communications etc.

So far it seems people use PO box [not seen as legitimate address for some purposes]
Using family [assuming you have any / you get on well enough with them !]
Using friends [assuming you have any / get on well enough with them !]
I've heard of 'Poste Restante' getting a post office to agree to use their address for you:-

Person name,
Post Restante,
***** Post Office,
Address,

You'll need ID to pick it up. I've not really looked into it / if it is a legitimate address for all purposes



Most services can be carried out online.

What about being employed, don't they need an address? - could your employment be your address, yes you don't live there but you can be contacted there??

 

[Theda]

Good point! A lot of stuff is virtual these days... but car insurance will be invalid without a bona fide address...
PO address is a good idea... but is that sufficient? Those with family/friends could just arrange for mail to be delivered there... but as for jobs, banks, etc... hmmm???!!
I have services, electricity and water to my land, and pay online by direct debit... but thinking I should be on some kind of data base simply by having those services supplied... in which case, I could probably just attach a post box to my gate...
I really wouldn't want to be of 'No Fixed Address' though... gaah!!!

 

[Broch]

That all depends on whether you have a fixed location (so residential mooring, or permanent caravan location etc.) or if you are always on the move. You can register any fixed location with Royal Mail. My understanding is they can refuse to deliver there if there is no reasonable access so you may need to put up a post box. Of course, once you do that, you will find your abode may well be included on other databases you're less happy about. It will help enormously if the location is on or near a named place on a map - a bridge, a hill, a wood or a ruin for example.

If you are moving around, and have no friends/family happy to receive your mail, you will have to use a post office. I have used a post office to receive parcels in advance on long trips but never on a permanent basis so I'm not sure of the rules. It is a service that used to be provided; it may still be but, with more and more post offices being little counters at the back of small supermarkets, it may not be.

As far as I am aware a PO Box address must be associated with a physical address so doesn't help you. The owner of a PO Box must be traceable to an actual address.

 

[mousey]

The biggest sticking point I've found trawling the internet is what address is put on the driving licence? as without it apparently the licence is void or cannot be issued without a permenant address, and yes insurance cannot be issued without a fixed address. What do travelling folks do??? - do they all just drive around illegally???, or is there some 'homebase' that all the gypsies are registered to !!

 

[Theda]

Ha! I think that perhaps maybe they do... it's strange how some people seem to get away with it... although I think local authorities are supposed to provide traveller sites nowadays...

 

[Theda]

That all depends on whether you have a fixed location (so residential mooring, or permanent caravan location etc.) or if you are always on the move. You can register any fixed location with Royal Mail. My understanding is they can refuse to deliver there if there is no reasonable access so you may need to put up a post box. Of course, once you do that, you will find your abode may well be included on other databases you're less happy about. It will help enormously if the location is on or near a named place on a map - a bridge, a hill, a wood or a ruin for example.

If you are moving around, and have no friends/family happy to receive your mail, you will have to use a post office. I have used a post office to receive parcels in advance on long trips but never on a permanent basis so I'm not sure of the rules. It is a service that used to be provided; it may still be but, with more and more post offices being little counters at the back of small supermarkets, it may not be.

As far as I am aware a PO Box address must be associated with a physical address so doesn't help you. The owner of a PO Box must be traceable to an actual address.

My plot does have an address due to it being marked on maps for decades as the site of a water pumping station... and there is access for the post to be delivered...but the thing is that it is not a residential address...so whether I could use it for my car insurance, etc...

 

[Tengu]

Yes, the problem of a proper post addy is a serious one; how do travellers manage?

I myself am a Grey area dweller; I live permenently on a camp site. I dont pay council tax (Though technicaly I should be on my property but I am exempt because I am a full time student...However that money would go to Wiltshire council and not Cornwall...)

I am on holiday and have been so for five years or so now...Note that both LCs do know me and my situation. Many people (I am told about 30K but of course no real numbers) live this way here; If the LC did something about us all there would be a big homeless problem. We keep the sites in business in the 10 month off season and so we are a boon to the economy.

I do have a proper addy; My site.

As for the idea of a boat...I have seen houseboats in Falmouth; they havent touched water in years and I doubt it would be good for them. A project boat would be easy to find. (Transport is expensive though) Since the OP has a vandal problem then living in it would be a prudent move.

They could sell the fittings on at a profit when they finished with it. Project boats can run on for decades.

The only trouble I forsee is access. Boats are not easy for someone older with reducing mobility.

 

[Broch]

Boats are not easy for someone older with reducing mobility.

The sad truth is that many, if not most, off-grid abodes are not suitable for older less mobile people. The increased chances of fall, slips, sprains and breaks is something that few people take into account when they are planning the 'ideal' life.

 

[Robson Valley]

Broch is so right, as I get older, I don't want the daily hassles of off grid living back of beyond in the forest.
Glamorous but a really shirty idea from the get-go. Living by myself is risky enough.
Then you get faced with needing trades people to do what you once did without hesitation.

Many of our smaller communities, like this village, will never have door-to-door postal service.
The default is that we all get a free mail box in the local post office. Annual renewals, that sort of thing.
Now, in many jurisdictions, that PO Box is enough.
Here, I think our government wants to keep a thumb on us so a street address is essential.

I know travellers. They live full time in those gigantic land-yachts, a Recreational Vehicle, a Motor Home,
whatever you want to call it. A dozen solar panels on top and away they go for years.
Others sold up everything and bought a big ocean motor launch. Maybe a rented slip is good enough?

 

[Theda]

That's interesting! Yes, if they tried to evict everyone who is living in this way, then they would need to start building like crazy... there just isn't anywhere affordable to live unless you have a decent income...
Well anyway, I just can't afford to stay here in this rented house as it's costing £1200 a month. When I moved here a year ago I paid 6 months rent in advance, followed by another 6 months last October. I've depleted most of my savings and won't be able to afford to renew the tenancy. In a few short weeks I shall b 'homeless'...

As I said, I'm a pensioner... but infirmity hasn't affected me yet... (touch wood)... Here's a pic of me up the scaffold last summer, hoovering the dried silage off the walls & roof...

Next I cut out holes for the Crittall windows (from an old school down in Devon) and sprayfoamed the inside ... it looks a bit 'yurt-ish' now, I think!

 

[Theda]

The old pump house... (with strange blue object in foreground). If the council makes me take down the silo, I will have to do something with this... the trouble being it has only half the floor space of the silo...

 

[Theda]

Broch is so right, as I get older, I don't want the daily hassles of off grid living back of beyond in the forest.
Glamorous but a really shirty idea from the get-go. Living by myself is risky enough.
Then you get faced with needing trades people to do what you once did without hesitation.

Many of our smaller communities, like this village, will never have door-to-door postal service.
The default is that we all get a free mail box in the local post office. Annual renewals, that sort of thing.
Now, in many jurisdictions, that PO Box is enough.
Here, I think our government wants to keep a thumb on us so a street address is essential.

I know travellers. They live full time in those gigantic land-yachts, a Recreational Vehicle, a Motor Home,
whatever you want to call it. A dozen solar panels on top and away they go for years.
Others sold up everything and bought a big ocean motor launch. Maybe a rented slip is good enough?

I agree... off grid is a 'romantic' idea and great if you're still young... but I wouldn't want to be way out the back of beyond! My plot is close to a village and right on the road... large town (and hospital) within 15 minutes, no probs with trades people, and although I've got stuck in with some really heavy, physical work in the past 12 months, obviously, it's all downhill once you've past 60 ... you can only do this kind of thing up to a point, then the arthritis kicks in... some days I just dose up on aspirin and carry on...
Yep, you're right about Govt. sometimes feels as though we are living our lives in a goldfish bowl...

 

[Theda]

The sad truth is that many, if not most, off-grid abodes are not suitable for older less mobile people. The increased chances of fall, slips, sprains and breaks is something that few people take into account when they are planning the 'ideal' life.

"Life is what happens when you are making plans" - John Lennon

 

[srod]

That silo looks fantastic, would make a great dwelling! I can understand the planning dept being on your case though... It's a shame as you seem to have put a fair bit of work into it. Did you add that concrete foundation also?

 

[saxonaxe]

" One thing that interests me with 'off grid living' / vanning [is that a real word!]/ boating just mobile living really, is the not having an address thing - no fixed abode. What do you put on your driving licence, how do you receive important communications etc."

I can help with that Mousey..

I encountered this problem when following the death of my wife in 1995 I sold my house and moved aboard my boat. I arranged with a long term friend and his wife to use their address as my home address in the Uk.
Post Office boxes are fine for mail, but the DVLC will not accept a P.O box for Driving Licence purposes.
My Service pension, Tax, vehicle registration (motor cycle) Insurance both vehicle and boat as well as National Health, Doctors etc: were all given my friends address as my 'official' home address.

To put it bluntly, most Government departments or official bodies don't give two hoots as long as you give a bona fide address capable of being verified by them and they can use that address to contact you for anything, from Tax demands to Doctor's appointments.
It does help if you can make contact with an identifiable individual within any organisation. For instance, I called into Gibraltar on my way from the Mediterranean to the Caribbean and found letters from DVLC threatening court action over my bike and SORN notifications.
I contacted someone at Swansea by telephone, explained the late mail, delays in response etc: and I was told my computer record was being updated and just to give them a shout when I returned to Uk and wanted to re-tax my bike...still got the letter from Swansea, no further problems.

Technically, without my mates address I have been NFA (No fixed abode) since 1995. I still don't live in a house. Like Tengu, I live on a static caravan site which I have to vacate for two weeks each year. Contrary to popular belief non payment of Council Tax is not a reason for closing the sites for a short period each year, it is primarily a site Owner's way of differentiating a 'Holiday' site from a 'Residential' one. The two have different regulations to be met. Fire, rubbish collection, public lighting, the list is lengthy, plus Tax implications for the owner. There is much less responsibility for some things by the owner if the site is Holiday rather than Residential.
As a matter of interest, a percentage of my annual ground rent goes as Council Tax... but there is no street lighting, rubbish collection, road maintenance and quite a few other aspects of living that make the amount less than bricks and mortar dwellers pay.

Theda...if you are still awake after all the above droning on...

A thought struck me when I read your post...What I said above about trying to deal within Council circles with one individual rather than a grey faceless Department is the best method if possible..
For example.. I spoke to the Practice Manager at the local Doctors Surgery and explained I cannot give my van site address as my home address..it is not a residential site, no mail deliveries. She kindly marked all my records with a 'Correspondence address' ...problem solved. When I had previously telephoned and spoke to a nameless surgery receptionist, the " too difficult light" came on and I was told to change Doctors/Surgeries as my friend's address was outside their area....But..But..I actually live on the van site just up the road...Ok I gave up and spoke to the boss at the practice..problem understood and resolved...

 

[Janne]

Theda, did you start converting the place BEFORE you got approval?

( you placed the silo there before any approvals you mentioned earlier)

 

[Theda]

That silo looks fantastic, would make a great dwelling! I can understand the planning dept being on your case though... It's a shame as you seem to have put a fair bit of work into it. Did you add that concrete foundation also?

Yes... I'm afraid so! I have also put in a sewage treatment plant which complies with the highest eco standards.