Mess Kit Advice

[Pandabean]

All,

Im looking for some advice on mess kit.

I have been thinking about getting a Zebra Billy, but the only place I see these for sale is from Woodlore. Are there other places you can get them? Also what sort of quality are they?

The second piece of kit I have been interested in is a Pat 58 Water bottle and fitting mug (crusader?). I have seen these as part of whole cooking kits. Is it worth getting the whole kit? Also how do you tell the proper ones from the fakes or less well made ones?

Thanks,
Andy

 

[Andy2112]

All,

Im looking for some advice on mess kit.

I have been thinking about getting a Zebra Billy, but the only place I see these for sale is from Woodlore. Are there other places you can get them? Also what sort of quality are they?

The second piece of kit I have been interested in is a Pat 58 Water bottle and fitting mug (crusader?). I have seen these as part of whole cooking kits. Is it worth getting the whole kit? Also how do you tell the proper ones from the fakes or less well made ones?

Thanks,
Andy

Try Lurch on this site (he's a member) Lakeland Bushcraft.

 

[andybysea]

The Zebra billys are well made,(got a 14cm one) and if you wanted the 58 bott and crusader as well you could kill two birds with one stone as woodlore also sell the genuine items, little bit more expensive, but pukka bottle and cup,and good service.no conection etc, but got my cup and zebra from them.

 

[mortalmerlin]

The zebra billy cans are bomb proof but a bit on the heavy side. I have the 12, 14 and 16 but normally have just the 12 when I'm on my own. They are worth the money. There are not many places selling them so opted for woodlore for them.

The cursador mug is made by BCB, the genuine 58 pattern mug is plastic and sit on top of the water bottle. The stainless crusador sits under it. Again a great bit of kit and easy to get with lakeland being one of the cheapest sources. I didn't bother with the whole kit as I always use it on a fire or over a small stove. Not seen any fake ones yet, just stick with a reputable supplier and you should be fine.

I recently got a primus frying pan to suppliment the billy. The whole set works very well. (specially for sausage in lard ).

 

[Shewie]

The Tatonka billys are just as good I`ve heard, for some reason they call them kettles though ??

 

[mortalmerlin]

The Tatonka billys are just as good I`ve heard, for some reason they call them kettles though ??

They're different, both have advantages. The zebra ones are stronger but heavier and don't nest. The tatonka ones are lighter and some people prefer the depth. Depends on what your're going to do with it I suppose.

 

[preacherman]

The Tatonka billys are just as good I`ve heard, for some reason they call them kettles though ??

I have used both Zebra and Tatonka and find the Tatonka to be better for my needs. They are lighter and stackable if you need to carry more than 1 pot. The bail arm locks when pouring so they are safer also. You won't go wrong with either brand but Tatonka for me is the better option.

I bought the Tatonka here http://www.survivalschool.co.uk/survival-bushcraft-equipment-1142.html.

No connection etc. etc.

Oops typed too slow, Mortalmerlin beat me to it.....

 

[Pandabean]

Thanks all. Will definately have a look at getting these.

What does the Pat 58 bottle usually come with? I have seen them with the black cup which I thought were just coated stainless steel.

Also on the billy's what sort of size is decent enough? The main uses will be for boiling either water or boil in a bag food. Mostly for myself. I do have aluminium mess tins (rectangular ones) but they don't seem to look good for boiling in a bag stuff. I havent been out with them yet so havent tested them.

Thanks,
Andy

 

[preacherman]

The Tatonka 1.6 litre is a nice size for 1 or two people. The 1 litre is okay if it is just yourself but for versatility I would go with the 1.6 litre.

There are 2 types of crusader mug available, one is a teflon coated stainless and the other is plain stainless. The teflon coating comes off over time which may not be the healthiest so the plain stainless might be better for you.

 

[mortalmerlin]

Thanks all. Will definately have a look at getting these.

What does the Pat 58 bottle usually come with? I have seen them with the black cup which I thought were just coated stainless steel.

Also on the billy's what sort of size is decent enough? The main uses will be for boiling either water or boil in a bag food. Mostly for myself. I do have aluminium mess tins (rectangular ones) but they don't seem to look good for boiling in a bag stuff. I havent been out with them yet so havent tested them.

Thanks,
Andy

The current water bottles are the osprey ones I think. You can buy them on their own without the mug or as a set. The 58 pattern mug is plastic so not much use for cooking in

A 12cm billy of 1.5 Ltr is fine for one person. I only use the larger sizes when the family comes along too.

Be careful cooking in aluminium tins, unless you're not bothered about Alzheimer's.

 

[Pandabean]

Now thats scared me. I didnt realise that. I just picked up them up at an army surplus store.

Be careful cooking in aluminium tins, unless you're not bothered about Alzheimer's.

 

[Mastino]

Be careful cooking in aluminium tins, unless you're not bothered about Alzheimer's.

I used aluminium cans and can definitively NOT remember forgetting anything..

 

[John Fenna]

My favourite billie cans are made from SS coffee and biscuit tins bought for pennies in charity shops.....

 

[Shewie]

I don`t think the Alzheimers thing has been proved or disproved yet, but I would suggest getting rid of the mess tins as they`re pretty carp for cooking anything other then what you`d find in a rat pack.
On a trip to Scotland last year my mate had brought two with him and they were useless for the meals he intended to cook (bad planning on his part I suppose), he ended up using my Bulldog billys (alu by the way) for the whole trip. One thing they were good for was using as an ashtray and digging a latrine.
Get `em flogged on ebay and get yourself something like a 1.6L Tatonka which will be much more useful.

 

[He' s left the building]

I used aluminium cans and can definitively NOT remember forgetting anything..

I have a great aluminium billy-can, I can't remember where I bought it though

On a serious note: I like the close-fitting lid on the Zebra cans, but how does the lid fit on the Tatonka? Does it nestle into the can or is it loosely rested on the edge?

 

[preacherman]

On a serious note: I like the close-fitting lid on the Zebra cans, but how does the lid fit on the Tatonka? Does it nestle into the can or is it loosely rested on the edge?

The lid sits around the outside of the pot. They are well made so the lid fits perfectly. Also the lid can be used as a frying pan which the Zebra lid is not designed to do.

By the way I found the Zebra lid to be very loose unless the bowl is left in and seeing as I did not need the bowl I found this to be a minor issue that further swayed me towards Tatonka.

The only thing about Tatonka is they can be a bit fiddly at first but you would soon get used to it.

 

[He' s left the building]

Thanks preacherman

 

[Pandabean]

Thanks all. Still not sure whether to get a zebra billy or a tatonka. From what I read both are good makes, however I like the idea that the Tatonka's lid can be used as a frying pan.

I think I will get rid or bury them away in the cupboard. I dont even think they are the non-stick ones.

John - I have thought about just getting a coffee tin however ones I have seen dont seem to have the right lid, either they are plastic or a very snug fit which might be difficult to get off when the bottom part is heated and the top is cooler.

I don`t think the Alzheimers thing has been proved or disproved yet, but I would suggest getting rid of the mess tins as they`re pretty carp for cooking anything other then what you`d find in a rat pack.
On a trip to Scotland last year my mate had brought two with him and they were useless for the meals he intended to cook (bad planning on his part I suppose), he ended up using my Bulldog billys (alu by the way) for the whole trip. One thing they were good for was using as an ashtray and digging a latrine.
Get `em flogged on ebay and get yourself something like a 1.6L Tatonka which will be much more useful.

 

[catman61]

nothing rong wiv mess tins or ally 4 cheap or "newbies" used both 4 yrs

 

[Bimble]

Just for the record, no causal link has been found between cooking in aluminium pots and Alzheimer’s. It’s just one of those pseudo studies based on bad science that sells news papers.

I personally think Zebra cans are overpriced and very heavy. They are actually every day cooking pans in Asia and defiantly not something I would want to carry far. (I think most people’s logic is ‘Ray’ swears by them so they must be good, I urge you to reconsider.)

I carry just two items when on my own. A 0.8 litre trangia kettle (£8 new from any outdoor shop) and a 1 litre aluminium pan that fits over the kettle. Both these live in an ordinary plastic bag to keep soot of the rest of my gear.

The kettle is the most useful cooking piece of kit for bushcraft. Most people don’t realise that the Scandinavian kettle is designed to cook in. The lids are deliberately large so you can cook and eat out of them directly. They are as easy to clean as any pan and they spill less when stirring.

They are cleverly designed so you can place one next to a fire without having to suspend it. You fold the handle over away from the fire. To pick it up you use just one hand placing your index finger on the lid button and lifting the handle and moving in one movement, simple, no burnt fingers, no spilt food in the fire! (Suspending valuable pots directly over a fire was considered bad practice in Scandinavia long ago.)

They are simple to drain when cooking food like rice/pasta/beans. Just hold as stated above to keep the lid secure, placing your spoon over the spout to not let any food out and pour away the excess water.

The low flat design presents the maximum surface area to a fire/sprit burner and hence boils much quicker than a tall pot like a Zebra. Much of the problems people have with sprit stoves is their use with inappropriate pots and pans. I think the shape of the kettle also allows much more stuff to be packed inside, particularly your spoon and of course spirit burner for when a fire is imprudent.

The rolled top edge, reduced size opening and inside fitting lid make them much more robust than an equivalent weight/volume pot.

The aluminium pot I use is also trangia, and does service as a bowl keeping food warm by the fire while the cooking is mostly done in the kettle. The pot also doubles as a fry-pan, but not that often, as frying is a difficult thing to get right using lightweight pans and a fire.

You can get a bit fancier than the basic kettle I use, I think primus now do a hard anodised variant and you can get stainless models to, but you can’t beat a Scandinavian coffee kettle for versatility and performance when solo camping in my humble opinion.

As an aside, this is how to make tea properly in the bush (A little anal I know, but if something’s worth doing it’s worth doing well!):

1. Filling from a river or lake place your thumb over the spout and submerge the kettle in the water. Now remove the thumb so water is drawn from below the surface, that way you don’t get bits of insect and scum in your tea.
2. Boil water and then place tea bag into kettle.
3. Put milk powder in insulated cup (you should not plan to use your cup for cooking. From experience, it’s much more useful if it’s designed to keep your drink hot outdoors. I hate the crusader cup. I suppose it’s alright as an improvised shovel for digging a fox hole, but as a drinking utensil it sucks and the crappy handles are dangerous with hot fluids, not that your drink stays hot for long!), pour in a splash of cold water and mix the milk powder.
4. Now here’s the important bit. Pour the tea into the mug containing milk! (If you do it in this sequence you don’t scorch the milk with the boiling water as it is added slowly. This is why a teapot is used to make tea. If you don’t believe me, make a cuppa this way then another by putting cold milk into the hot tea. Now taste both side by side.)
5. The other reason you use a kettle/teapot for this is that the infusion should be poured from below the surface as you pour, this way you avoid that metallic looking, bad tasting, scum that is produced when steeping the tea.