Manchester dogs home set on fire .

[santaman2000]

I am. It was a question not a statement. It always amuses me how many anti abortionists are also ardent death penalty supporters.

Btw. Time to thread lock?

I suppose it's because we consider abortion as murder whereas we consider capital punishment as justice.

And we in turn find it tragically odd (notice I won't use the word "amusing") how those opposing the death penalty find abortion perfectly acceptable.

Particularly in light of your argument against the death penalty: that it's possible to occasionally execute an innocent. Based on that, please tell me how one determines that a fetus is guilty?

 

[British Red]

So maybe we can find a way to rehabilitate them so they don't offend again? Our justice system is broken. Not as broken as some though and we can still learn from others.

...and how many innocent lives are you prepared to have ruined or cut short by these released people? Released violent do reoffend - from every prison.

So the question for you is are you happy for the innocent lives lost to your preferred method?

 

[mountainm]

Most psychologists agree that the personality (including criminakl personality) is set by around age 8. Rehabilitation is a myth.

Going to use your and Red response to arguments you find hard to counter. ..

"If you believe that. ..."

A notable brain specialist was trying to find similar traits in pyscopaths brain patterns. He found one. Then he found out his own brain also matched the patten. Nurture not nature.

 

[mountainm]

...and how many innocent lives are you prepared to have ruined or cut short by these released people? Released violent do reoffend - from every prison.

So the question for you is are you happy for the innocent lives lost to your preferred method?

My preference is that we never kill anyone in the name of justice. It sets a healthy precedent.

 

[British Red]

Going to use your and Red response to arguments you find hard to counter. ..

"If you believe that. ..."

.

...and I said that where?

 

[swotty]

Hmm, is this just me or is this thread going a hell of a lot off topic?

 

[mountainm]

...and I said that where?

Paraphrasing. Your exact words were

"They claim"

 

[British Red]

My preference is that we never kill anyone in the name of justice. It sets a healthy precedent.

That was not the question, the question was are you okay that all the facts show that a proportion of violent offenders when released will kill again.

Is that a price you are willing to pay?

 

[British Red]

Hmm, is this just me or is this thread going a hell of a lot off topic?

No its not you - lets drop it - morality is a personal view - not an absolute.

 

[mountainm]

That was not the question, the question was are you okay that all the facts show that a proportion of violent offenders when released will kill again.

Is that a price you are willing to pay?

Lock them up for life then. It's a seperate issue.

 

[swotty]

No its not you - lets drop it - morality is a personal view - not an absolute.

Well said Red

 

[santaman2000]

Going to use your and Red response to arguments you find hard to counter. ..

"If you believe that. ..."

A notable brain specialist was trying to find similar traits in pyscopaths brain patterns. He found one. Then he found out his own brain also matched the patten. Nurture not nature.

No arguments there (apart from the mentally ill with a genetic disorder) My argument was that said nurture, or lack thereof, will have already set an individual's propensity long before they reach a prison or juvenile facility.

 

[mountainm]

Nurture doesn't stop age 8.if it does then all these criminals aren't responsible for there actions. There parents are.

 

[santaman2000]

Lock them up for life then. It's a seperate issue.

I also know many who would consider that an even worse fate. It's one of the reasons for a phenomenom known as "suicide by cop" (albeit only one of many reasons)

 

[mountainm]

I also know many who would consider that an even worse fate. It's one of the reasons for a phenomenom known as "suicide by cop" (albeit only one of many reasons)

Then it's their choice. I'm not anti suicide.

 

[santaman2000]

Nurture doesn't stop age 8.if it does then all these criminals aren't responsible for there actions. There parents are.

To a degree, yes. We're all a product of our upbringing. And yes, it's possible to turn someone around (or for them to turn themselves around) at a much later age. But by and large yes, the basic sense of right from wrong is set by around age 8. The farther you get from that, the more difficult it is to change.

However one of the benefits we saw here from longer sentences was indeed a reduction in recidivism. Not that the prison time was necessarily doing anything to rehabilitate the offenders; rather they were simply not being released until age itself had caught up with them. Older people are generally less violent.

 

[santaman2000]

Then it's their choice. I'm not anti suicide.

On the face of that statement I almost agree with you. But then again, I've also lost somebody very dear to me (an ex fiance's grandson that I watched grow up) through suicide shortly before he would have been 21.

I do draw a line at assisted suicide though; mainly because I foresee the day when it will move from "assisted" to "encouraged" to mandatory. Following the line of logic you mentioned regarding denying medical care.

 

[mountainm]

We've crossed swords before on other similar issues and I see no point pursuing this one. I think everything that can be said has been said.

 

[santaman2000]

That was not the question, the question was are you okay that all the facts show that a proportion of violent offenders when released will kill again.

Is that a price you are willing to pay?

When released? They kill while incarcerated. Weapons can be (and are) fashioned from toilet paper, toothbrushes, trash bags, etc.

 

[santaman2000]

We've crossed swords before on other similar issues and I see no point pursuing this one. I think everything that can be said has been said.

Pretty much how I feel about the idea of rehabilitation: Everything's been tried. Nothing works.

But bringing that back into context with the OP, it's also generally agreed that those who are capable of committing acts as heinous and cruel as the burning of animals are equally capable of committing those acts against people.