Loch Lomond Ban to be extended?

[filcon]

Robbi your bang on mate, but c,mon not wanting to infringe their rights while they create chaos.

"and fear......people don't fear anything these days, they don't fear the policeman, just tell him to eff off, don't fear the ranger, don't fear the courts, don't fear teachers, don't fear their elders........no fear of any type of punishment."

I think there is a generation of Blair Bratz as Robbi has described, I was going to say we need Dixon of Dock Green but we are more in need of the Sons of Anarchy .

Unfortunately the decent kids and they are amazing also getting classed the same as the scum in their generation. The root cause to scum kids is scum parent/parents.

phil

 

[mountainm]

Robbi your bang on mate, but c,mon not wanting to infringe their rights while they create chaos.

"and fear......people don't fear anything these days, they don't fear the policeman, just tell him to eff off, don't fear the ranger, don't fear the courts, don't fear teachers, don't fear their elders........no fear of any type of punishment."

I think there is a generation of Blair Bratz as Robbi has described, I was going to say we need Dixon of Dock Green but we are more in need of the Sons of Anarchy .

Unfortunately the decent kids and they are amazing also getting classed the same as the scum in their generation. The root cause to scum kids is scum parent/parents.

phil

I think the lack of respect (much more important than fear) is more down to a loss of mixed active local communities with role models and differing viewpoints. Long working hours, long commuting distances and more emphasis placed on property as status have contributed to a society that values celebrity and wealth. Communities are now online and made of like minded peers (this forum included) that no longer benefit from a wide range of views. The riots are a prime example of this - organised by a community that had no self regulation and no self policing and who value status and wealth above all else. The loss of face to face mixed communities means people do not feel empathy for their neighbour, or even accountable for their actions. Selfishness pervades without class or political boundries (bankers and politicans merely perform less public but more damaging acts of selfishness than the rioters did).

We all need to shoulder a little blame for this. But to fix it we need to bring kids back into communities and make them feel a part of a neighbourhood in which everyone has a role to play, everyone has value.

 

[filcon]

" We all need to shoulder a little blame for this". Sorry no way, not me pal, scum breed scum and rats breed rats.
Spent 32 years working in their environment day in and day out, my days work used to be areas like "THE SCHEME" Kilmarnock and believe me they have actually improved the area from what it used to be like.

The Rioters went mad because they had nothing to lose and everything to gain. They look at the Banks, Politicians, Press and the Law. Respect, how can they respect the so called prominent members of society and what send them to jail. The fat cats steal the cream, the scum steal everything else and the tax payers have to pay for the mess.

So send them to Jail: where you can smoke freely, 3 steady meals,learn a trade, study,gym, workshops. You can also see a Doctor , Dentist or specialist on the actual day without appointment. Papers, books , DVD,S, films, games brought round to your cell. Clothing and bedding cleaned regularly, no fuel bills. no community tax. Safe secure room to sleep in every night without the fear of getting broken into. Christmas and birthday presents every year.
An average £35,000 A YEAR for this all inclusive deal

 

[coln18]

I'm not surprised about Loch Earn coming up on a next target list. The behaviour of some of the maggots who camp there is appalling. I have actually been shot at with an air rifle by a group of boozed-up "anglers" while paddling past. I wouldn't mind a total camping ban on the loch with the police cruising past at 11am each night to round up offenders. I am sure Ardvorlich and the other estates who have to suffer the associated problems would be relieved and happy.

You can still find pristine wild camp spots on Scottish Lochs. You just have to go to remoter spots that are not beside a road.

I stongly disagree with this, tell me how do i take my wee 2 year old boy wild camping, not sure hed be up for a huge hike into the wilderness, i live on loch lomond and can no longer take my wee boy out camping overnight in the wild setting i would like, with them being close to home but still remote and wild enough to give him and myself the experience i desire.

I said at the time of the lomond ban that this would be the start of a blanket ban, sorry to hear that i was right. As Mary said earlier the only way to deal with this is through hard work, lots of patience and education of the people doing wrong. When i first started camping i probably threw everything at my feet, but through meeting others i was taught to respect the land and then enjoy it and leave it the same way for others. This will be the start of things now and it wont be long before it will be like England with no wild camping.

 

[Totumpole]

So send them to Jail: where you can smoke freely, 3 steady meals,learn a trade, study,gym, workshops. You can also see a Doctor , Dentist or specialist on the actual day without appointment. Papers, books , DVD,S, films, games brought round to your cell. Clothing and bedding cleaned regularly, no fuel bills. no community tax. Safe secure room to sleep in every night without the fear of getting broken into. Christmas and birthday presents every year.
An average £35,000 A YEAR for this all inclusive deal

plus better food than you can get in an NHS hospital (more is spent per head on prison food than patients)!

Its a real shame our personal rights are constantly diminishing due to the behaviour of others. If I had the answers, I'd be prime minister!

 

[Laurentius]

Well maybe I will get shot down in flames for saying so, but I don't think the ban is necessarily a bad thing.

There is a reality that there are too many people who want to take advantage of the countryside for the country to sustain, and the recent vogue for "bushcraft" has hardly helped. I daresay everyone on this forum considers themselves to be a responsible user of resources, but that still leaves the rest of them out there who seem to think nature is inexhaustible, or just don't care. On the fringes of every urban conurbation there are patches of country that are frankly "ravaged" by the town dwellers. How many of you go out into your favourite woodlands and see evidence of irresponsible fires having been lit and litter everywhere. I would rather give up a few rights to make sure that there is something for the generations to follow.

The point is if you can get away with it stealthily, and leave no evidence behind, then all well and good, you are not the target. There is no point in increasing access if there is a lack of responsibility and a lack of education as to why that is important.

 

[Scots_Charles_River]

I think it will spread to other lochsides.

Arisaig beaches were really quiet this august compared to last august. No ban there, maybe more active policing ?

I am planning a school group trip - Loch Voil down to Lubnaig via Balvaig. Wild camping, mainly west/south sides.
Education is not the answer, we did not have any problems wild camping on the Eiliean on Loch Ard in May. The owner
spoke to us afterwards apoligising to us for the mess, human, that fisherman had left. We had collected a black bin bag
of cans and plastic. I would not take kids back until later this month when the human waste is reduced.

It is respect. Young people who say 'there is nothing to do' need better parenting. Every night there is scouts, dance, football
basketball across urban areas in Scotland. Communtiy based.

I see McDs litter in the McD carparks etc. So it is cultural not just in wilder places.

Back to the ban, it needs SOAC enforcement rather than bans and new laws.

 

[morch]

double post

Dave

 

[morch]

"I stongly disagree with this, tell me how do i take my wee 2 year old boy wild camping, not sure hed be up for a huge hike into the wilderness, i live on loch lomond and can no longer take my wee boy out camping overnight in the wild setting i would like, with them being close to home but still remote and wild enough to give him and myself the experience i desire.

I said at the time of the lomond ban that this would be the start of a blanket ban, sorry to hear that i was right. As Mary said earlier the only way to deal with this is through hard work, lots of patience and education of the people doing wrong. When i first started camping i probably threw everything at my feet, but through meeting others i was taught to respect the land and then enjoy it and leave it the same way for others. This will be the start of things now and it wont be long before it will be like England with no wild camping."

Well said Col, couldn't agree more

Dave

 

[william#]

Well maybe I will get shot down in flames for saying so, but I don't think the ban is necessarily a bad thing.

There is a reality that there are too many people who want to take advantage of the countryside for the country to sustain, and the recent vogue for "bushcraft" has hardly helped. I daresay everyone on this forum considers themselves to be a responsible user of resources, but that still leaves the rest of them out there who seem to think nature is inexhaustible, or just don't care. On the fringes of every urban conurbation there are patches of country that are frankly "ravaged" by the town dwellers. How many of you go out into your favourite woodlands and see evidence of irresponsible fires having been lit and litter everywhere. I would rather give up a few rights to make sure that there is something for the generations to follow.

The point is if you can get away with it stealthily, and leave no evidence behind, then all well and good, you are not the target. There is no point in increasing access if there is a lack of responsibility and a lack of education as to why that is important.

i tend to agree with you i have been very put off in recent years by the sheer avalanche of people taking to the wilds
it use to be just wierd people like me sleeping out in the woods or on mountains with a few equally off beat friends.
occasionally you would stumble on some place used for camping by some kluges who had left rubbish but it was so few and far between
you would just pick up there rubbish stick it in your pack and dispose of it yourselves when you reached a bin.
licences - honestly never gona happen too much opposition and hell they couldnt even administer dog licences and the amout of lunatics on the roads and they all hold licences.

 

[Gotte]

The trouble with other people is that they exist.

"Hell is other people." as Jean Paul Satre noted. I'd add that the seventh circle of hell must be drunken car campers with a stereo.

 

[Grallocher]

Someone mentioned Loch Lubnaig, I spent a great deal of time around this astonishingly beautiful area and the carpark at the top of the Leny outflow has turned into a right old sh1tpit, i have been verbally abused and threatened many times when asking "campers" to uplift their litter and other rubbush left lying, won't stop me telling them but we shouldn't have too.
I can't honestly see a way forward, it's like people simply don't care anymore, no respect, no manners, no bloody clue.
I recently spoke to some danish visitors and a group of young french travellers who both commented on the litter and general abuse of our countryside, it's a sad state of affairs

 

[Halfdevil333]

I stay in Balloch and myself and a few pals found a remote wooded area above Balloch. We put in a lot of work building a big shelter out of blow down trees etc. It lasted a year before it was sniffed out by local NEDS. When i visted the other day the shelter was gone (burned) the place was littered with at least 4-5 bin bags of empties. Mind you we have one of the scumbags name as he stupidly dropped his passport in the woods.
To get to this camp you would need to walk for about 45 mins with your buckfast etc...so it looks like to problem isn't confined to car campers.

Cheers
Scott

 

[locum76]

I doubt problems like this are confined too this country AND there are parts of Scotland that remain clean and beautiful.

 

[BillyBlade]

Glad that someone had the guts to mention the Eastern European attitude to this, namely that they have no issue with using the whole place as a toilet and as a dumping ground. I have a friend who lives in Fort William, and he has seen first hand how gangs of them have trashed places of outstanding natural beauty. The local Police in the past, have been, shall we say, reluctant to address the problem, but I'm led to believe thats changing, thankfully.

I also have friends in certain areas of England who have seen ducks and swans dissapear from lakes within months, as they have been taken as food by these immigrants. Again, despite pressure from concerned local groups, the Police are reluctant to get involved as the race card is VERY quickly played.

Regards the angling community, well, I agree wholeheartedly with Toddy. I remember twenty plus years ago when I used to rescue wild swans and ducks who had got themselves tangled up and in a bad way because of discarded lines and hooks, and the damage an ingested lead fishing weight can do to a bird is horrific. Even now, I've had the odd run in with anglers leaving shoreline like a wino's toilet. It's not right, and it's not on.

The other issue, and one I've noticed frequently on other Lochs from an aerial vantage point, is the amount of discarded tents left to rot. I've flown over at 1000ft and less, and it's looked like there was a festival on or some such, the amount of tent numbers. There isn't, obviously, but we live in such a 'Tesco £19.99 tent and stove' disposable world that many people buy such items and use them once, leaving them to rot into the ground after there night on the booze.

For me, the buchcrafting community is frankly the least offending of all the groups; we actively care about the enviroment, and take steps to leave nothing but footprints, but I fear that we shall be the ones to suffer the hardest under any legislation that is adopted as we have no one unified voice to be heard anywhere, in sharp contrast to the angling movement in the UK.