Lighter

[addyb]

Well, the only spare fuel thing that I know of is this.

But I really don't use it, because Zippo's will run off any flammable substance. You can fuel them and they will burn off of: kerosene, car petrol, meths, diesel, and even high proof alcohol.

And that right there, is the genius of them. Yes they do eventually fun out of fuel, but you can pretty much take for granted that wherever you are, you can find some sort of fuel for them. And they're also dead reliable; so simple there's really nothing that can go wrong with them. Petrol lighters have a much stronger, more weather resistant flame than butane lighters, and they're also a little more environmentally friendly, I think.

My friends always know that wherever I am, no matter what time of day it is, I'm always good for three things:

- a zippo

- an SAK

- and a Space pen.

Because hey, you never know what could happen, right? It's all about being prepared!

Adam

PS: Of course, when in the bush, I still take a small BIC lighter as backup, but as of yet, I've never once had to resort to it. My Zippo's always worked. No matter what.

 

[demographic]

Well, the only spare fuel thing that I know of is this.

But I really don't use it, because Zippo's will run off any flammable substance. You can fuel them and they will burn off of: kerosene, car petrol, meths, diesel, and even high proof alcohol.

And that right there, is the genius of them. Yes they do eventually fun out of fuel, but you can pretty much take for granted that wherever you are, you can find some sort of fuel for them. And they're also dead reliable; so simple there's really nothing that can go wrong with them. Petrol lighters have a much stronger, more weather resistant flame than butane lighters, and they're also a little more environmentally friendly, I think.

My friends always know that wherever I am, no matter what time of day it is, I'm always good for three things:

- a zippo

- an SAK

- and a Space pen.

Because hey, you never know what could happen, right? It's all about being prepared!

Adam

PS: Of course, when in the bush, I still take a small BIC lighter as backup, but as of yet, I've never once had to resort to it. My Zippo's always worked. No matter what.

Your Zippo must be a hell of a lot better than mine cos mine doesn't even like unleaded, iyt refused to light anything other than the naptha stuff

I am sorry but I just struggle to believe that they light up on deisel

 

[addyb]

haha maybe my Zippo IS better than yours! Who knows??

Adam

 

[filcon]

I mix the lighters,bic,zippo,s and wind proof out of lidl,s,vg.Started to light fires using tee light candles.Kindling ,put teelight on top,then build fire on top.Once well lit the candle speeds up the flames.fil

 

[demographic]

haha maybe my Zippo IS better than yours! Who knows??

Adam

Could easy be, to be honest after buying mine I decided they were pretty crap and it got left in a drawer.

Maybe it's just mine thats crap as I refuse to believe that there can be much difference in technique with them.

 

[Doc]

Zippos are great if you smoke - when it is in regular use you will keep it filled up. Not really ideal as part of the outfit due to fuel evaporation.

Butane jet lighters are handy as the flame is directable into a lamp, or kelly kettle, or pipe, and also lend themselves to fusing rope ends, emergency soldering and hot-melt glueing (carry a stick in the pack). None of these are very convenient with a firesteel.

The jet lighters do seem very temperamental though. My Victorinox campflame was never reliable, though replaced under warranty. A £2 Lidl one was excellent (much better than the Victorinox) but then died -I think due to my wife or son getting wax on it and damaging the catalyst wire coil.

I've ordered a Silva Helios to try. I think the Windmill ones are similar. How waterproof are they?

At the end of the day, I find that the combination of a K&M matchcase (available from Schwert) plus matches, and a firesteel, is the most reliable solution. The firesteel goes on forever, nearly, but does need some skill both in striking and in finding/preparing tinder. But they will both survive a canoe tipping no problem at all. I would only use a lighter as a supplement to these, rather than a replacement.

 

[addyb]

Well, even when I didn't smoke, I still carried one around with me in the bush. I remember my Dad bought my first one for me when I was in the 8th grade, I convinced him that I needed it for "Survival." Well he bought the yarn (haha) and bought me a lighter. I've collected a few of 'em over the years, and even given a few away. Well I'm almost 21 now (oh joy) and a simple brushed chrome still has it's place in my right trouser pocket. Even if I don't have my ciggies with me, I still take the lighter.

Anyway, here's a wee story for you all: About three years ago, he and I (he's my main climbing partner) were doing a winter trip on our mountain-touring skiis. (The ones that you have free swinging ankles and skins for uphill, and locking heels for downhill) Anyway, we were gone for about a week, and on one of our last nights, we ran into a storm. So, our standard procedure at the end of each day is to have a bowl of soup before dinner so we re-hydrate ourselves and put a bit of energy into our bodies so we can set up camp and whatnot. Anyway, the storm got to be so bad that my Dad's plastic BIC lighter (he'd been using them out there for 20+ years) refused to light, which meant we couldn't get our MSR stove to light. Which meant no dinner, no melting snow for water. He was getting anxious, and then I realized that I had my Zippo in my pack. I pulled it out, it lit up first try and got the Whisperlite going. Needless to say, everytime we go out now "Adam, you got your Zippo?"

And that's why I carry one. Anyway, here's a picture of me with mountain-touring skiins from about the time of that trip, but this one was a day trip. Isn't the view lovely?

 

[Nemisis]

I was shopping in my local Aldi a few weeks ago and picked up one of those jet flame chefs blow torches for £9.99 lights just about anything lol
Dave.

 

[Great Pebble]

My "everyday carry" is a jet flame thingy. £4.99 from local outdoor shop.
Service life is abut 6 months after which it will fall to bits, I still buy new ones because I like the ability to direct the flame, even inverted. Have a notion about the next one I buy, goig to strip it when I buy it, Thread lock the screws and fill the neck and spacearound the intrnal butane tank with Araldite. As it seems that they efectively rattle themselves apart as the components are a very loose fit held in place by only a coule of grub screws. Current example is getting rattley so it wont b too long before this gets put to the test.

Outdoors I'll always hae one of these and a selection of the cheapo plastic things that "getlemen" hawk on street corners, "lighters, 3 for a £!".

 

[nickg]

Got to say that a Zippo works for me. Winning point is that a totally empty zippo will still light your fire. The flint sparks and the wadding is the best tinder you can carry. Ive had mine since the late 70's carried through 13 years army service and even though i gave up smoking 25 years ago i still have it with me. Yeah the hinge is loose and rattley but the thing has never needed repair in all thise years. And i think i paid £3 for it.

 

[Stuart]

Zippo's will run off any flammable substance. You can fuel them and they will burn off of: kerosene, car petrol, meths, diesel, and even high proof alcohol

Be honest here abbyb (because I will be testing this when I find a zippo) have you actually tried lighting a zippo with diesel or kerosene? I ask because I find this highly unlikely considering you can extinguish a match in diesel, it has to be preheated, vaporised or pressurised before it will ignite.

The option of a zippo or Bic lighter is a matter of personal choice, given the two as an option I personally would choose the Bic for the following reasons.

The problem with evaporation inherent in the zippos design renders it totally impractical for emergency equipment use as it would have to be checked and refuelled every 5 days, another complication is the possibility of the fuel vapour tainting the contents of a sealed container.

For expedition use the evaporation factor would require me to carry an additional container of highly flammable liquid in my bag with which to refuel the lighter every 5 days regardless of weather it had been used.

Therefore even if I didn’t actually light the zippo at all, due to evaporation I would still have to carry a 100ml of zippo lighter fuel (the smallest size available) in my bag to ensure that it would light.

Unless of course I decided to take the time to decant the actual amount of fuel I required assuming I could find a container of the correct capacity which would safely contain my volatile fuel.*

*(in which case assuming that the zippo has a fuel capacity of about 5ml and needs refuelling every 5 days I would need 30ml of fuel every month, equalling 1 millimetre a day evaporative loss)

keep in mind that the above figures approximate evaporative loss in average UK conditions, in higher temperatures such as those encountered in a desert environment rates of evaporative loss would be considerably higher.

You can reduce evaporative loss a little by storing a zippo on its side but when carried in a pocket or bag this it not an option.

zippos are also vulnerable to submersion in water as the fuel source is not adequately sealed and the fuel becomes contaminated requiring replacement, with bic lighters the fuel is protected and once dried they will continue to function

It has been stated that even after they have run out of fuel zippos can still be used to light one last fire by striking the flint into the wadding and thus are dependable.

As we have already shown the zippo without replenished fuel has a 100% failure rate after 5 days, even if it has not been used. An individual can, as has been stated strike the flint into the wadding in order to archive one last fire. Therefore beyond the 5th day you only have the ability to light one fire.

This can not be considered reliable by any stretch of the imagination.

especially when you consider that a standard Bic lighter will light hundreds of times more than a zippo before needing to be refuelled and can be stored without fuel indefinitely, where as the zippo can only be stored without replenishment for 5 days. Though it is possible to damage a Bic lighter, it is highly unlikely that a Bic lighter will be rendered inoperable before the zippo runs out of fuel, and you could carry several Bic lighters for the same weight and space requirements of a zippo and its accompanying fuel container

In conclusion the Bic MAY fail, but the zippo is GUARANTEED to.

I carry a Bic lighter wrapped in rubber inner tube in a very small ziplock bag which happens to be the perfect size for a Bic lighter (not sure where I got it from)

I hope this post is read in the nature it was intended as I have stated the choice is a personal one and the decision is yours, these are simply my reasons for choosing a Bic lighter.

 

[British Red]

I've ordered a Silva Helios to try. I think the Windmill ones are similar. How waterproof are they?

.

Doc,

Just like the Windmill, the Silva is 'O ring' dealed with a positive catch on the lid. In the interests of "try to break it 'cos your a bloke", I submerged mine for 10 minutes and tried it - lit first click! The only thing I don't like on mine is that its a tad bulky , so I keep a smaller turbo flame as my edc lighter and switch to the Silva when out and about.

I keep a small piece of ferric rod in my multi tool belt case as well in case the need to be all bushcrafty comes over me (or the lighter fails)

Red

 

[Doc]

Thanks Red. Good info.

The Brunton (=Silva) Helios gets heavily criticised in some American reviews, but this seems to be largely because it doesn't work well at 9000 feet above sea level - not a problem in the UK.

I would prefer a gas lighter over a zippo - possible exception if one is carrying petrol/Coleman fuel for the stove. However, there is always the possibility of losing the pack and relying on what is in your pockets.

 

[faca]

Hi Stuart, totally agree with your point.
But you know is so funny to burn parafine ;-).
And Zippo "klak" is so addictive.
Anyway I carry in my PSK a little Bic ligther with a bike inner tube on top a waterproof cup.
I have tried to soak Bic lighter dropping it into a "full" ;-) glass of water, during some hours.
After that impossible to ligth, but after sake it and wait some time till dry enougth light again.
So BIC Vs Zippo:
Cheaper
More autonomie.
Ligther
No so "Macho" gadchet ;-).

 

[Andrew Middleton]

Sorry, I'm a bit late entering this thread. I have a silva helios and I left it in a trouser pocket and then washed the trousers. It survived it's trip through the washing machine and lit first time afterwards! I also own a Brunton Helios, which despite looking the same, is significantly better quality.

 

[addyb]

Stuart,

Wow, I'm glad that someone finally challenged one of my posts! So thank you, in a way. I'm going to take a stab at your large post now, and try to explain why I prefer a Zippo over a pressurized lighter when I'm in the bush.

Here are some reasons why I carry a Zippo with me always:

1) Windproof. Bic's dont have much in the way of a windproof flame. Zippo's are crazy windproof, I can light mine and keep it lit in absolutely horrific weather. But, the same goes for jet-flame lighters.

2) They ARE water resistant. (So are Bic's mind you) If you get a Zippo, dunk it in your sink for a few seconds. Then take it out, wipe it off, open the lid and you'll find that it will still light.

3) Have you ever tried to light a lighter and keep it lit when it's twenty below zero in a Canadian winter, you're camped on a permanent snowfield and your fingers are so frozen that you can hardly untie your boots? Once you a light a Zippo, it will continue to burn until either it runs out of fuel or you close the lid. Even those fancy jet-flame lighters require you to hold the button down. This is difficult when it's cold outside, the weathers bad, and you're wearing gloves.

4) Zippo's are environmentally friendly. You buy one for $20 dollars, and if you take care of it, it will last a lifetime. When a Bic runs out of fuel, millions of people all over the world toss them away, useless. I think that this adds garbage to the world, and I also think that bushcraft is about leaving the area you were in in the same condition as when you arrived.

5) They're dependable. I've seen Bic's and plastic jet-flame lighters dropped onto rocks where they explode. Bang. There goes one of your major sources of flame in the mountains. Zippo's are solid metal, they're not pressurized and there's nothing to go wrong.

So there's five reasons. Of course, everyone has their own reasons for what they carry. Now I'll try and have a go at the rest of your post.

Multi-fuels: Stuart, you mentioned in your post that tossing a match into diesel results in the match going out. That's the whole purpose of the wick in a Zippo. It WICKS the fuel inside the cotton. You know how you can still light diesel if you soak a rag in it and then spark it? Poof. Flame. Same thing for all petrol lighters. If you have a Ronson or a Zippo, or even an Imco. If it has a wick, it will burn just about anything flammable. Just like an old kerosene miners lantern.

Evaporation. You're absolutely right on the money with evaporative loss. A Zippo has a 100% failure rate when it's out of fuel. But I will say that if your Zippo only lasts five days on one filling, chances are you're not filling it properly. I keep mine going on one filling for usually over a week. So when it's out of fuel, yeah, you're screwed. But on the other hand, on long trips when mine runs dry, I just fill it up with my stove fuel. So no, you don't have to carry a container of Zippo fluid in your pack with you!

I believe that this falls under the category of fuel efficiency. I had a nice little Nibo jet-flame lighter once, the flame was hotter and more windproof than my Zippo(s). I saw two problems with it: The flame on the Nibo was so hot, once I lit it, it sucked up the butane fuel pretty quickly. And to keep it lit, I had to keep pressing down a little button, which I found pretty hard to do when wearing gloves.

Basically, as long as you keep your Zippo fueled up, you have a lighter that will light and stay lit dependably in conditions that send Bics cowering inside of your tent. If you don't keep it filled up, you're screwed. But like I said, I just re-fill it with my stove fuel. Sure, it's old fashoined technology, but it works for me, as I'm sure a Bic works for you, Stuart, or a Brunton for you, Andrew. Just like how some of us wear Ventile, and others Gore-Tex.

In the end, all you have is fashion!

Cheers mate, and have a happy New Year.

Adam

 

[Stuart]

Touché Abbyb

you havent convinced me to give up my bic in favour of a zippo, but now if members read abbyb's and my post they will have both sides of the argument for Zippo Vs Bic.

which is what BCUK is for, Information on bushcraft from every perspective freely shared

 

[addyb]

Yep. And I gotta say Stuart, that BCUK is by far the best forum I've ever been a member of. Some of the previous ones I'd been a part of had moderators who would ban people on a daily basis. Others had posters who would slander others.

At least here, everyone is so polite. (I think it might be because you're so...English!)