Leather stitching.

[Tengu]

I cheat.

I running stitch one way, then go back down for a double thread

I find this easier than proper saddle stitching...but is it as good? Is it authentic? Correct? Acceptable???

Also, when you are doing `proper` saddle stitching, how could you measure the thread? I have plenty of thread, but I obsess over wasting it.
(Hence the running stitch...uses up ends of thread)

 

[birchwood]

To measure for saddle stitch use 3 times the length of your run of stitching, plus a bit on each end( 4 to 6 inches )for needle thread ends .
Using running stitch is neither authentic or correct saddle stitch,but whatever works for you.

 

[dazcon]

Depends what your stitching. I'm no expert. I've only stitched sheaths. Done about 20 now. Usually 4mm leather with a 4mm welt. I know your concerns. You don't want to run out of thread three quarters of the way through and don't want to have loads left over to throw in the bin. I use 8x the length of the run and saddle stitch. Not sure about how much for your method though.

 

[John Fenna]

There is nothing wrong with using a running stitch for things that are not going to take a lot of hammer - saddle stitching is only really needed for "hard wear" projects .. such as saddles!
If you look at knife sheaths made of nylon (for example) the sewing is usually done in a fairly light nylon thread sewn with a machine "lock stitch". A sheath sewn with a saddle stitch is about 100 times stronger (guestimate) but the fabric sheath is the choice for "tactical" knives...
For most projects a running stitch would be more than strong enough and durable enough... however, if I was making a saddle or other harness that I wanted to have for the next 100 years and be strong enough to withstand my weight while bouncing around 6' from the ground at 40mph I would certainly use a saddle stitch!
I wonder if most folk who use "Saddle Stitch" actually put in the locking loop at each stitch or just run the needles through past each other (effectively just creating two rows of running stitch at the same time....

 

[Toddy]

Properly done saddle stitch stops the two layers moving at all too though, and the tension is tight enough that the layers bond together. That last 'snap' as the threads lock can be done with enormous force….y'know the way that a knapper ends up with hugely powerful forearms ? well an old fashioned hand sewing leatherworker does too….and the concomitant shoulder and chest development after years at the bench.
A lot of it's to do with their threads, and very few people twist their own nowadays.

Anyone can sew, but that doesn't mean that skills learned and practiced over decades can be emulated in a day. They can't, but that doesn't mean that someone can't do a tidy job though, just not quite the same job, iimmc.

M

 

[Kerne]

I always thought that the locking part of "proper" saddle stitching prevents the thread unravelling and the join coming apart if part of it gets cut or frayed.

 

[Toddy]

Very true, and the 'ball', the wax/resin that is used on the thread helps it stick all the fibres together as well.

M

 

[John Fenna]

I have just had a look in all my knife making books that also deal with making the sheathes... only one of them suggests using a saddle stitch, the others use lock stitch, back stitch or a SINGLE running stitch ... or even machine sewing (lock stitch) with industrial machines or a "Quick Stitch Awl".

 

[Toddy]

I would politely suggest that those books are all dated after the advent of machine stitching though.

It's easy for us, cheap for us, to acquire knives nowadays. Bespoke, hand made, is still the ideal. If buying a bench made knife, buy a bench made sheath too.

Each to their own, and sound workmanship is always to be admired and encouraged

To return to Tengu's question though; no, running stitch isn't correct, authentic or acceptable in the reconstruction of most historical leatherwork of the kind she mentioned earlier.

M

 

[John Fenna]

I totally agree that running stitch etc are not historically accurate for pre industrial reconstruction ... but I cannot see mention of that in the OP

In Loveless' (great American custom knife maker, famous for the bolts of his name etc) book "How to make Knives" glues seems to be the favourite way of fixing leather, backed up with machine lock stitch: non locked Saddle stitch is in "Alternative Sheath making method". David Boyle's classic work on knife making "Step by Step Knifemaking" uses a "Stair Step stitch" basically a variation of a running stitch and if anyone can tell the difference in look between a returned running stitch and a non-locked Saddle stitch - even if you unravel the sewing or cut it open then I would be impressed indeed

In my own leatherwork I use machine, locking, running, whip, saddle (unlocked), saddle (locked) and probably a couple more types of stitch, all depending on what it is for ... the BcUK leather patch on my daypack is simple reversed running stitch... by turn shoes are locked saddle stitch... my Iron Age shoes are whip stitched - and sew on (see what I did there "sew" on instead of "so" on, yeah? oh never mind...)

 

[Klenchblaize]

Anyone can sew, but that doesn't mean that skills learned and practiced over decades can be emulated in a day. They can't, but that doesn't mean that someone can't do a tidy job though, just not quite the same job, iimmc.

M

Very true and no less so I venture than my refusal to accept the use of a quick stitch awl and pricking wheel ( ) will ever turnout work equal to that achievable with leather subject to the attentions of a pricking iron prior to saddle stitch with thread of a corresponding diameter.

K

 

[Baelfore]

I got a copy of Al Stohlman's 'The Art of Hand Sewing Leather' when I first stared out when I started playing around with leather. by following the instructions in this book, the length of thread you use is irrelevent, as this can be added to as you stitch

took a bit of practice at first, but I now find saddle stiching to be easier than a running stitch, I find its easier to avoid the needle piercing the opposite thread, praticularly when using me DIY stitching pony, make cheaply and ieasily in about half an hour, following instrucitons from members on here.

hope this helps,

Ste

(p.s. Tengu, PM sent)

 

[Toddy]

Klenchblaize, the lady who taught me to sew leather was a saddlemaker at Newmarket and I agree with every word you wrote.
Sally had irons for every stitch length, and the finish on her work was absolutely superb the tension was so crisp and tidy the twists on the threads were the same number of wraps on each stitch. Beautiful skillful work and a pleasure to watch and to admire the completed piece.

The thread joining is another skill worth learning too, and so is the hidden stitching in a box join.

Thing is though, this is all top notch work, and much to be encouraged, but there's still a lot of very sound and useable work that doesn't reach those standards.

Strong, sound, tidy work is nothing to be ashamed of though, and again, much to be encouraged

Tengu wants to make a reconstruction of a historical leatherwork item…..if she wants to make an authentic reconstruction, then that includes not only the materials but the techniques involved.
If that means that she needs to learn old skills well enough to do the job properly, then that's what it takes.

M

 

[Klenchblaize]

Klenchblaize, the lady who taught me to sew leather was a saddlemaker at Newmarket and I agree with every word you wrote.
Sally had irons for every stitch length, and the finish on her work was absolutely superb the tension was so crisp and tidy the twists on the threads were the same number of wraps on each stitch. Beautiful skillful work and a pleasure to watch and to admire the completed piece.

The thread joining is another skill worth learning too, and so is the hidden stitching in a box join.

Thing is though, this is all top notch work, and much to be encouraged, but there's still a lot of very sound and useable work that doesn't reach those standards.

Strong, sound, tidy work is nothing to be ashamed of though, and again, much to be encouraged

Tengu wants to make a reconstruction of a historical leatherwork item…..if she wants to make an authentic reconstruction, then that includes not only the materials but the techniques involved.
If that means that she needs to learn old skills well enough to do the job properly, then that's what it takes.

M

No problem. I just spotted the chance - not to be missed - to use that emoticon for the first time!

K

 

[Toddy]

It's a goodie that one
I need to learn it's written form, because I type in the smilie's addresses rather than go look for the icon to click.

M

 

[John Fenna]

Tengu wants to make a reconstruction of a historical leatherwork item…..if she wants to make an authentic reconstruction, then that includes not only the materials but the techniques involved.
If that means that she needs to learn old skills well enough to do the job properly, then that's what it takes.

M

Ah - reference to that must be on another thread ...
I totally agree with the last sentence

 

[Goatboy]

Toddy, to get this simply type ":" followed by ""notworthy" followed by another ":" with no spaces, and without the text marks obviously!.

ATB, GB.

 

[Toddy]

That one I know but the ranting one that Klenchblaize used isn't on our smilies list



atb,
M

p.s…….well, it is I typed in : rant : and there it was

p.p.s. John, sorry for the confusion, but yes, Tengu had started to talk about sewing an authentic reproduction leather bucket for part of her archaeology course.

M

 

[John Fenna]

That one I know but the ranting one that Klenchblaize used isn't on our smilies list



atb,
M

p.s…….well, it is I typed in : rant : and there it was

p.p.s. John, sorry for the confusion, but yes, Tengu had started to talk about sewing an authentic reproduction leather bucket for part of her archaeology course.

M

Locked saddle stitch it is then - no cheats allowed!

 

[S.C.M.]

can someone tell me what "locked" saddle stitch is please? I have an idea of what "unlocked" saddle stitch is (two needles and thread, going opposite ways through the same hole, right?) but I can't think what the locking bit is or how it would be done