Layering advice please...

[comeonbabylightmyfire]

I'm walking between 10 and 20 miles a day and have experimented with a variety of layers. Basically I sweat a lot. During the summer it was OK, I could take a spare teeshirt. Now I'm using technical fabrics as supposedly high wicking base layers, but I continue to sweat copiously. My outer shell gets soaked on the inside and if I swap it for a fleece there's a bone jarring wind chill to contend with. Essentially I'm wet through after the first ten minutes and when I stop after 10 miles the sweat just doesn't evaporate and I remain sodden and consequently get cold. As winter approaches I need to get on top of this problem. I've tried merino but that stays wet and claggy and all the outer shell's (Gore-Tex et al) are not as breathable as the manufacturers' claim.

I'd be happy if anyone could recommend a layering system that will actually work rather than leaving me drenched, freezing and after numerous disappointing purchases - skint.

 

[ged]

None of it works for those of us who sweat a lot. All I think you can do is take a change of clothing and a towel.

 

[edelweiss]

After experimenting with a lot of stuff in the past I've come to use a mixture of synthethics and merino wool as a base layer in colder conditions. Over this, I usually only wear a
windproof smock. I use this combination in temperatures as low as 0C to -5C. Below that, I add an additional layer. Depending on the temperature, this would be either fleece
or a Snugpak jacket in colder conditions.

I've given up on Goretex and only resort to it in heavy rain (almost never use it though, as the waterproofing of my smock holds off almost everything I usually encounter).
As base layer, I can recommend stuff like the Brynje Arctic shirt. This uses a Polypropylene mesh on the inside and merino wool on the outside. The mesh helps create a layer
of warm air while still allowing sweat to rapidly evaporate to the next layer. They also sell mesh shirts and merino shirts separetely so you can adjust to different temperature
settings.

I tend to sweat alot, too, and this type of clothes really helps me keep warm. I never felt so dry and comfortable before. With a Goretex jacket too much sweat was building up
on the inside of the jacket which could not evaporate fast enough.

 

[Limaed]

Well Buffalo / Montane gear is designed to minimize chilling through evaporation by being highly breathable and making most of the vents. I think a lot of folk never got their heads round wearing it next to the skin despite this being the intention. Have you tried it this way? Apologies if I'm teaching you to suck eggs but it might be worth a look (again?)
http://www.buffalosystems.co.uk/ or http://www.montane.co.uk/products/men/extreme/extreme-smock/99

 

[bearbait]

Hi there COBLMF,

Maybe you are wearing too many layers when you hike? I like to run cool so I wear as little as possible when I'm moving and pile on layers when I stop. This has worked well for me down to -15C and less. I use merino base layer and Buffalo mid/outer with (usually) Lowe or Mammut "tights" on my lower body. Indeed, I've been hiking in stilll air at -17C in merino base layer and Lowe tights layers only, although when the very slight breeze kicked in the windchill was to be believed! Running cool also means your hydration demands are lessened. I like to keep my hands and head warm and adjust the rest of my body temperature through them. My fingertips split to bu**ery in any breeze so I use a pair of silk gloves much of the year, supplemented by pile mitts in colder conditions. Head gear is generally either a Lowe Mountain Cap or a Meraklon head/neck "thing", when necessary.

I have some (old) Goretex gear but rarely use it.

It takes some time to get your gear sorted and this forum is a great place for ideas. Choose your gear "for theatre and operation"...

 

[Miyagi]

Sound advice from bearbait.

I tend to look to the past in this regard.

String vest, cotton shirt (or T shirt) and bodywarmer/gilet/waistcoat, sometimes a light windproof jacket/cagoule or thicker jacket for winter.

Definately not goretex though - yeuch.

Liam

 

[sandbender]

"...I'd be happy if anyone could recommend a layering system that will actually work rather than leaving me drenched, freezing and after numerous disappointing purchases - skint..."

My advice would be to not use a layering system.

I do use Merino base layers when I'm out and about but not when I'm walking long distance routes.

Like Limaed I'd suggest that you try Buffalo or Montane gear, these worn on their own against the skin will keep you warm and comfortable while walking, but not dry, which admittedly is an odd concept to get your head around.

From the Buffalo web site...

"...None of the Buffalo products are intended to be waterproof, they are proofed to repel water as stated above, but they will all keep the wearer warm even when the garment is wet, as long as the wearer keeps active or if stationary just exercise every 10 minutes to keep their body temperature from dropping. All the lined overhead garments work most efficiently when worn next to the skin. In this way the pile fabric wicks moisture away from the skin more rapidly, where it is then dispersed by the Pertex to the external surface to evaporate and keep the body dry and free from chilling.

This is the fundamental principal of the Pertex / Pile system: to keep moisture away from the skin, because in cold conditions if perspiration is not allowed to escape it is retained and rapidly cools causing chilling..."

http://www.buffalosystems.co.uk/DP_System_main.htm

Just have something warm and dry to wear or crawl into at the end of your walking day.

 

[jeffz]

The problem with cotton is that it takes ages to dry. Visit your local TKMaxx, and pick up base layers there for under a tenner. They may also have cheap soft-shell jackets (water-resistant, breathable, windproof -and dries fast if wet) with underarm zips. Then use a poncho-tarp as your waterproof. It can be done cheap.

Those Factory Outlet shops or SportsDirect also do cheap base layers and soft shells.

 

[Hetzen]

I've stopped buying cotton. It takes ages to dry. The main reason I used to wake up cold at 3am was that I sleep hot and the T-shirt I was wearing was still wet from my condensation, which obviously cooled me down later in the night.

I was shown one of these the other day by a keen rock climber who swears by it. He handed me a golf ball sized stuff sack with this in it...

http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/montane-featherlite-smock-p142371 Sorry for the retail link, the Montane site seems to be down.

Windproof and high wicking pertex. He said it keeps him dry in rain, which somehow I doubted. Anyone else out there have any experience with this sort of garment? It seems topical to the thread.

I'm guessing that you get wet when it rains, but wick it off without loosing heat? (not sure)

 

[shaggystu]

.....Windproof and high wicking pertex. He said it keeps him dry in rain, which somehow I doubted. Anyone else out there have any experience with this sort of garment? It seems topical to the thread.

I'm guessing that you get wet when it rains, but wick it off without loosing heat? (not sure)

in really heavy rain the pertex outer layer eventually gets soaked through, but the inside of the pile never gets more than damp. it works becuase the inside of the garment is hotter than the outside, the heat of your body forces the water away faster than it can get in. buffalo clothing works really well. i've not used any of the alternative makes of pile/pertex but i suppose they'd work exaclty the same.

pile/pertex isn't really any different to wool/ventile in principal, with both sytems you've got an inner layer that stays warm when it's wet and an outer layer that keeps off most of the wind/rain, the combination of the two layers allows your body heat to keep you dry and warm by forcing the moisture away from you.

stuart

 

[Hetzen]

Thanks Stuart.

So does this system work with layers underneath, like fleece or other technical layers like bamboo etc?

Cheers

Jon

 

[pastymuncher]

I did here of someone experimenting with a thin neoprene layer as a base layer, the thinking being that it would stop any moisture reaching your clothing, reducing the chilling caused by moisture wicking and stopping clothing becoming moisture laden in non venting areas, i.e on your back where your pack is. Don't know if it was any good or not though.

 

[Hetzen]

Got to say that that doesn't sound very comfortable. More like a Still Suit from Frank Herbert's Dune. But reading up on it the theory seems sound.

 

[shaggystu]

....So does this system work with layers underneath, like fleece or other technical layers like bamboo etc?....

in my experiance not really, i've tried it with synthetic base layers and didn't get on with that at all, it just made me unpleasantly sweaty. i've worn it with a norwegian army shirt underneath but that's for when i'm stationary and it's bloody cold. i imagine that a thin woollen base layer underneath could work well but it's not something i've tried personally

stuart

 

[sandbender]

"...More like a Still Suit from Frank Herbert's Dune. But reading up on it the theory seems sound..."

A stillsuit, that is exactly how to think of it. Wear nothing other than the Buffalo/Montane gear against your skin, although you can wrap something over it for short stops or if you are working near a fire.

 

[Limaed]

I've stopped buying cotton. It takes ages to dry. The main reason I used to wake up cold at 3am was that I sleep hot and the T-shirt I was wearing was still wet from my condensation, which obviously cooled me down later in the night.

I was shown one of these the other day by a keen rock climber who swears by it. He handed me a golf ball sized stuff sack with this in it...

http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/montane-featherlite-smock-p142371 Sorry for the retail link, the Montane site seems to be down.

Windproof and high wicking pertex. He said it keeps him dry in rain, which somehow I doubted. Anyone else out there have any experience with this sort of garment? It seems topical to the thread.

I'm guessing that you get wet when it rains, but wick it off without loosing heat? (not sure)

Hetzen, I've got one of these tops its a great simple windproof that drys quick but its not waterproof. The Pertex isn't as tough as some of the other windshirts on the market however so I use mine for running and on the road bike. If you're after a windshirt it would be a good choice but check out the Paramo Fuera, Buffalo windshirt and Arktis windshirt for a comparison. Having used them all I think the Paramo is the best followed by the Buffalo but they all do pretty much what they say on the tin. It just depends what fetures you want and what your prepared to pay, they all come in green too...

 

[widu13]

As already said, it's not really what item of clothing to wear but what not to wear! If you are walking more than a mile then you need to dress cold, so that as you break camp you are thinking "I must get going and warm up". If 5 mins after setting off you are hot, you are overdressed. If after 10 mins you are hot, you are overdressed. If after 30mins you are cool but comfortable you have it right! I often wear a base layer and an unzipped windproof. Keep some warm stuff at the top of your bag for when you rest, you'll need it!

 

[mrcharly]

Remember that the 'pile' in a buffalo shirt isn't fleece, it's a pile with the fibres in a different orientation. It pulls the water away from your skin by capillary action, not relying on heat. That's one of the reasons why the buffalo system works so well in extreme conditions. When you can't guarantee to keep dry, or to dry out in the evening, the buffalo works and nothing else will.

 

[Hetzen]

Thank you Limaed and Widu13. I'm getting an idea on how these garments work as a system. I personnaly am keen to do more trekking than I do to find a spot to stop, so for these colder months I'm thinking merino base with a windshirt whilst active, then something like a down body or jacket when I stop. Fleece and waterproof if needed.

 

[andybysea]

I have a buffalo shirt, and would not wear it if overheating/sweating was my problem, or to go walking in, i find them so damn warm in all but the very coldest conditions,great for sitting around in the cold/wind though.