Law regarding lighting fires

[Vickyjs]

Help
OK so I'm writing an assignment and I could really do with knowing about the laws regarding lighting campfires. Obviously I know that you are supposed to ask the land owners permission BUT in what 'Law' is this written down I need to be able to quote it's source or origin (it's not just enough to know apparently) It's easy to find out about national park rules eg. Dartmoor (no fires) and beaches (below the high tide line) etc but can't find the origin of this rule for private land. And is there any other related 'nonsense' I could quote to make my assignment look good!!

Are there any clever people out there who can help me please? :notworthy
Vicky

Prob. should have put this in the firecraft section - sorry just didn't think. (if anyone want's to move it that's fine)

 

[ged]

British Waterways has its own rules e.g. for canals, and a lot of local rules and enforcement would be down to local authorities. Have a word with them or look on their Websites. HTH

 

[Bucephalas]

I don't think it's any law in statute.
It may be a bye-law in some areas but otherwise it's a civil matter in breaking someones "rules". It most certainly isn't an arrestable offence, not even an offence at all.
You're more likely to get sued.

 

[resnikov]

I think its not a law per say but it is what ever rules the landowner makes up for use of thier land. Will ask my wife when I get home as shes about to finish a law degree.

 

[Tadpole]

Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994
Power to remove trespassers on land.E+W+S
61
(1)If the senior police officer present at the scene reasonably believes that two or more persons are trespassing on land and are present there with the common purpose of residing there for any period, that reasonable steps have been taken by or on behalf of the occupier to ask them to leave and—
(a)that any of those persons has caused damage to the land or to property on the land or used threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour towards the occupier, a member of his family or an employee or agent of his, or
(b)that those persons have between them six or more vehicles on the land,
he may direct those persons, or any of them, to leave the land and to remove any vehicles or other property they have with them on the land.

So if you are staying on the land, even for a short time, and light a fire on the ground, (damaging the ground) and burning wood collected from the land(damaging/destroying the property ie thewood) you fall foul of this act.

 

[shaggystu]

i'd guess that lighting a fire on private land (without permission) would be classed as criminal damage

 

[Vickyjs]

Basically what I've got to do is relate a forest school activity (in this case cooking dampers on sticks over a campfire which was lit on the ground) to the 'relevant woodland regulations' so obviously I can talk about coppicing the wood for the damper sticks, but what else?

It's so annoying when you've done all this stuff for years, work in a really safe way but then have to write loads of rubbish to meet someone else's 'criteria' for being successful / safe /competent.

Thanks Tadpole - that's a good one - I've not quoted the criminal justice act!!

Thanks for the help so far.

Vicky

 

[ged]

... It's so annoying when you've done all this stuff for years, work in a really safe way but then have to write loads of rubbish to meet someone else's 'criteria' ...

Stop right there and re-think why you're writing this. If you think it's "rubbish" then you're wasting everyone's time, including your own.

 

[Vickyjs]

That's a bit harsh Ged !!!!
I'm up to my eyeballs in paperwork and I keep repeating myself over and over for different questions of an assignment and I was looking for a new angle on it. Don't you ever have a bad day?!
I do endless risk assesments for things so I don't think that 'working safely' is rubbish (I had to do a risk assesment for making / throwing paper aeroplanes the other day) but the endless 'links' to evidence and evidencing tasks in these NVQ 'style' course requirements just to tick boxes don't make you a better leader or educator - in fact they do away with the necessity to learn skills or gain experience or have common sense becuase with a few photos and the correct references or links you can prove that you are capable of doing anything even if you are not very good at it.

Sorry if I offended you.
Vicky

 

[shaggystu]

.....the endless 'links' to evidence and evidencing tasks in these NVQ 'style' course requirements just to tick boxes don't make you a better leader or educator.....

no, but they do all allow you to accrue qualifications, which bring with them cash, which allows the FE education system to exist, which gives you the opportunity to work as a "leader or educator" in the first place. yes it's an imperfect system, yes a lot of the NVQ system (and those similar) is paperwork for the sake of paperwork, but then any subject you study will be taught imperfectly and a lot of education is self serving i.e. education for the sake of education, so it all kinda balances out really.

ged wasn't intendending to be harsh, he's just comes across as a grumpy old sod sometimes! he's actually quite a nice bloke really. i think he was just suggesting that if you think that the course that you're doing is "rubbish" then maybe you should re-think things a little. reasonable and sensible advice really

 

[gandelff99]

i used to own a small plot of land and regularly had to go upto a patch that was full of conifers to clean and tidy up,especially over the summer.
one or 2 groups of happy campers,duke of edinburgh types did ask me if they could use that area for a small camp,and on the basis they behaved and tidyed up i was happy to oblige.it was even when i supplied bins at that area, however over the course of time a few wrong uns started to have fires in the bins and ruined it for everyone,thus i no longer permitted it, not to say i didnt turn a blind eye to the more discreet backpacker but on a few occasions i did go up there and ask them to move off,never had to get the police involved,just explained that they where tresspassing on private land .consequently when i sold up and moved back home i too became a covert backpacker

isnt the age old maxim of "leave no trace" the more preffered method of what we do anyway? out of sight out of mind.
if anyones foolhardy enough to pitch a flaming orange tent on someones land and light a fire especially in plain view of course there going to get asked to move on, however i have never known anyone to be arrested in all my years of backpacking, and let us not forget theres a good deal of us that do our own little bit in the areas we pitch camp in( and for only 1 night for the best part) a little woodland husbandry as it were,
i hear what your saying in regards to the actual letter of the law but common sense prevails 9 times out of 10.
an example being,
a plate /sheet metal etc under the base of your fire
a wind shield/fire reflector to hide the flames
keeping the fire small
in fact anything that can be used to keep damage/scorched earth.

its sometimes unfeasible to ask permission especially if your in the mountains,deep in a forest or miles from anywhere,though preferable where possible to at least tip your hat to a local farmer, and though many of us have and continue to run fowl of this,many landowners are very tolerant as long as you pitch at last light,gone at first light and dont damage there property,scare their animals and respect there livelihoods, though there fear of woodland /fires blazing out of control ,mass gangs of lads with music,booze and pop up tents etc wont help your case either.

 

[FGYT]

Basically what I've got to do is relate a forest school activity (in this case cooking dampers on sticks over a campfire which was lit on the ground) to the 'relevant woodland regulations' so obviously I can talk about coppicing the wood for the damper sticks, but what else?

It's so annoying when you've done all this stuff for years, work in a really safe way but then have to write loads of rubbish to meet someone else's 'criteria' for being successful / safe /competent.

Thanks Tadpole - that's a good one - I've not quoted the criminal justice act!!

Thanks for the help so far.

Vicky

There is no law maybe Smoke free zones mainly towns etc

but you can light a fire on private property with permission to quote you the 'relevant woodland regulations' may say no but they arnt LAW

The Criminal justice act shown below is for more than one trespasser assuming you have permission to be in the wood to conduct the Damper cooking course your not trespassing and would have permission to be there and light a fire

some times there is no law to quote. (we dont generally state in English Law what is Legal just what is not legal. )

Rubbish gets written and perpetuated until some one stands up and says no H&S is in general a good and sensible idea but can by individuals get blown out of any real use mainly due to the washy way it can be interpreted and the constant threat of Law if you leave your self liable.

also if it is HSE then breaking a law isnt necessarily relevant HSE is there to prevent an accident and injury so should be more focused on the Danger

If its for after when people can do it themselves they wont be at work so HSE does not apply.

maybe you need a section of the form .

Permission from the relevent land owner for Cooking fire granted [tick] name: A. Lndowner Date from :__/__/____ to :__/__/____

ATB

Duncan

 

[jackcbr]

Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994
Power to remove trespassers on land.E+W+S
61
(1)If the senior police officer present at the scene reasonably believes that two or more persons are trespassing on land and are present there with the common purpose of residing there for any period, that reasonable steps have been taken by or on behalf of the occupier to ask them to leave and—
(a)that any of those persons has caused damage to the land or to property on the land or used threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour towards the occupier, a member of his family or an employee or agent of his, or
(b)that those persons have between them six or more vehicles on the land,
he may direct those persons, or any of them, to leave the land and to remove any vehicles or other property they have with them on the land.

So if you are staying on the land, even for a short time, and light a fire on the ground, (damaging the ground) and burning wood collected from the land(damaging/destroying the property ie thewood) you fall foul of this act.

Thabks for this. Will come in handy the next time our "traveller friends" stop by unannounced and the police say there is nothing they can do.